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DeVaul

Very, very interesting, Elaine. I am most fascinated by the empire graphs and how similar they are.

Also, it never dawned on me that warfare for a lone empire is always a losing proposition, but you are right. There is no other empire to loot, so no possibility of breaking even or making a profit from warfare exists.

Right now we are fighting over burnt rocks and endless piles of sand, which destroys most of our machinery before the enemy can. The tiny amount of oil there cannot be pumped and shipped out efficiently because of constant warfare and sabotage. It is truly a losing proposition for us.

Any wise person can see this or figure it out, but empires are never led by the wise.

blues

Your own Taconic mountain range runs parallel to the Berkshire range where I have lived most of my life. I think they don't seem to follow any mathematical curve that is reasonably simple, but you know... So maybe history is like mountains or ocean waves. Theoretically, they are composed of vast summations of sine curves, but nobody's counting. Obviously, human beings almost always wreck everything.

I have never loved empires since they seem to be nothing more than extended crime families. So I wish the hot-shots at the universities would figure this stuff out, and come up with a few styles of life that had meaning and purpose. You know, Elaine, you and I see the world in starkly different ways. But you have more or less converted me to Pegasism. Now we should to write the Great Book. Deval, Canuck, Daliwood, eric, et al. might even help. Inevitably, Smith would finance the whole fiasco. He could write a forward warning potential buyers that they were were about to get hoodwinked by a sinister cult. That would really sell!

Canuck

Yes but what direction to take? Where the balance between social interest and individual liberty? Which dreams and aspirations to crush and which to let flower? Who decides and by what authority? Ready to live with cracking a few heads open? Elaine laments the stress we’re putting on the environment all well and good but at this stage human depopulation appears to be the only way for eco-relief, even wholesale collectivist/redistribution of food won’t cover off if you start to reduce use of fertilizer/pesticides. Zero-point energy, sure, I’m a believer, but as Elaine said we’ll just use it for more junk filled storage units, they’ll be on the moon or mars instead. That puts you right in the chorus with NWO plans, they want depopulation. Isn’t the Chinese one baby rule unseemly? Want your kids to be the one’s to enforce it? Forced sterilization, euthanasia? Haven’t we chastised the Nazi’s for this? Care to see how this is done? Check out Maurice Strong, here’s a guy with conviction and follow through, he isn’t going to let a few dead baby carcasses impede him. If bell curve thinking leading to war are human natures way of resolving environmental/social stress, lock and load I suppose. Plenty of people yearning for a better way and have ideas but on the whole people just aren’t willing to change. If people won’t face up to what’s going on and persist in having more comfort in being manipulated over taking action and a modicum of responsibility what can be done?

JSmith

"The treadmill of history is marked by these graphs that seem to be anchored in something very deep within our brains. "

I doubt it. As my stats prof never tired of saying, "Correlation is not causation!"

Population cycles show the same peak/valley behavior. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_distribution

"But you have more or less converted me to Pegasism. Now we should to write the Great Book. Deval, Canuck, Daliwood, eric, et al. might even help. Inevitably, Smith would finance the whole fiasco. He could write a forward warning potential buyers that they were were about to get hoodwinked by a sinister cult. That would really sell!"

Now, THAT'S funny!

"Yes but what direction to take? Where the balance between social interest and individual liberty? Which dreams and aspirations to crush and which to let flower? Who decides and by what authority?"

I'm a "let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend" sort of political theorist. (Which doesn't make me a Maoist - he was actually a "my way or the highway" sort of political theorist.)

Canuck

Allowing a hundred schools of thought indicates that you’re a libertarian and I have leanings that way myself. But if my bright idea is to grade a 100 acres bring in loads of gravel and turn it into an RV storage area. I suspect Elaine would take issue. How do you reconcile the economic benefits against environmental degradation with something like the Three Gorges Dam. Back away from the dam and use coal or nuclear? Should the devastating floods be controlled? It’s that damn pesky human desire for affluence and fulfillment driving this. And what’s the alternative, Khmer Rouge?

DeVaul

On a side note, this is why I do not want my children to attend college. Even the most liberal, liberal arts college will still portray empires as being essentially good or neutral, and then their collapse as being a disaster for all. This is crap.

Blues is right. They are just "extended crime families" (excellent!) and there should be little adoration for them in history classes, but they will always be looked up to by college professors too lazy to think for themselves.

Don't give Smith too many ideas. More likely than not, he would be the one to slip away to the Cayman Islands while the rest of us are put on trial in the middle of a media circus.

JSmith

"Don't give Smith too many ideas. More likely than not, he would be the one to slip away to the Cayman Islands while the rest of us are put on trial in the middle of a media circus.

Curses. Foiled agan.

blues

Everybody that posts here must be pretty good at slipping away. That's how we got here.

jordan 1

I smell the taste of wine. see you! "We do not talk more that day. We stood up, shook his hand and eye lookedeach and so on. Bees were shut out, but came to backhesitatingly.

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