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JSmith

I'm not sure how the image on the tarot card goes with "cruelty". Are the guys in the robes closing in on the girl going to make her convert to Christianity against her will?

Oh, the horror!

DeVaul

I'm not sure how the image on the tarot card goes with "cruelty". Are the inquisitors in the black robes closing in on the girl going to make her convert to the "one true faith" against her will?

Oh, the horror!


I'm not sure how the image on the tarot card goes with "cruelty". Are the mullahs in the white robes and headbands closing in on the girl going to make her convert to Islam against her will?

Oh, the horror!


I'm not sure how the image on the tarot card goes with "cruelty". Are the priests in the robes closing in on the girl going to make her convert to Hinduism against her will?

Oh, the horror!


I'm not sure how the image on the tarot card goes with "cruelty". Are the guys in the black robes and dreadlocks closing in on the girl going to make her convert to Judaism against her will?

Oh, the horror!

I'm not sure how the image on the tarot card goes with "cruelty"...


JSmith

DeVaul, have you been drinking again?

DeVaul

Yep! And you drove me to it. I hope you're happy.

Ernest Fred

You are mistaking in your understanding regarding institutional stock trading.

The issue of "hiding" trades is that there are many who try to take advantage of institutional size trades made by mutual funds, banks, hedge funds etc. When people are aware a fund manager wants to buy or sell a large block of stock they will "run ahead" of the order. That means they will buy a few thousand shares or more, knowing that the large money manager buying hundreds of thousands of shares will have to take the stock price up and allowing the trader running ahead to profit as the stock price rises. Traders who run ahead make the situation worse for investors by taking stock prices up or down as they run ahead. (replace buy with sell and stock price up with stock price down and it works the same way for sellers as for buyers)

All of the systems you refer to were designed by good old capitalists, not commies, looking to "build a better mousetrap" for investors. I believe that is the American way?

Dark Pool is simply a reference to the fact that when you trade in one you don't see any orders but your own, which trade off of the same prices all investors see from the exchanges, and from the trades executed in dark pools and or any other trading system.

John

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Llazy1

Mabuse? Perhaps a referance to Nostadamus's "Mabus", the third antichrist?

Honest Fred

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Mike

As a former prop firm trader I worked a lot with dark books. The second point brought up in the original post is interesting, as I think there are two sides to it.

When using dark books within a small cap stock as an active trader (one who had access to the dark books) liquidity is actually increased. A dark book, or the trader behind it does not want the market to know they are there, otherwise they would have taken all the supply the stock already. Thus, the dark book sits waiting for additional liquidity sources to find it. Nerveless that liquidity is there, whether seen or not.

Small investors may not know this is occurring. But the very fact there is a dark book actually increases volume once transactions start firing on that dark order.

When I traded I always tried to exit on dark pools first. This means if I had 5000 shares I would get as much out on dark liquidity as I could. This means those shares are not taken off the visible book, which means someone else can now buy or sell them.

From personal experience, I rarely used dark books to place orders, but I did use them to exit positions. This basically meant that some my orders showed on the NYSE or Nasdaq Level II, while some were not shown on the book but were reflected in the ticker as transactions through against the dark book.

I don't think the small investor is hurt by this. Anytime we have someone who wants to pick up or dispose of stock, whether hidden or visible, inevitably that has to create movement or volume. That movement or volume can benefit the small investor because they can capture these movements with small share amounts. They are not playing the same game as the dark pools.

If a hedge fund needs to pick up 30,000 shares of a stock that does 10,000 volume on average a day, they are not going to do it 100 shares at a time over 3 months. They are going to leave a dark order out and hope someone comes along with bigger lots than the measly shares which are showing on the book. Thus big traders exit on each others dark orders, and small investors still have the shares on the book to enter and exit positions. If a trader is big enough to have to worry liquidating large positions that could cause massive slippage, then they should have access to dark books.

But in this new age of lots of hidden liquidity, traders, especially short term traders need to be aware of what side the big money is on, and when.

Just as a large order can cause surges or dumps in price, so can a discovered algorithm which then is exploited by traders. Traders need to aware of this.

If you are interested in speaking more with me regarding dark liquidity pool trading you can view my writings on http://www.darkpooltraders.com

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Dark Pool is simply a reference to the fact that when you trade in one you don't see any orders but your own, which trade off of the same prices all investors see from the exchanges, and from the trades executed in dark pools and or any other trading system.

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