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Simon

Keep up the good work!

Right now I am not even sure if the bailout is their (Wall st) final goal, or its just a device to keep the stock market jittery and impossible to see.
700 points down, then 500 points up, then 700 down etc ad nausem
Why debt forgiveness and bailouts don't work: everyone is expecting his neighbour nation to blink first!

Regarding the Japanese worker's dilemma, I guess they are being rewarded in a way, that is anything Japan makes they are the first consumers, and they have some of the most advanced telecoms in the world. Can you say 1 Gps up/downstream internet?
Secretly they call the US a big "agrarian" nation because of the huge US food export industry
;)

Buffalo Ken

Is value not essentially "inherent"? I mean an entity either has considerable value or not much at all. It may be a bit subjective but not entirely. For example, I could have a $500 bill in one hand and a circular saw in another. If I needed to cut some wood, then the value of the circular saw certainly exceeds the value of the bill (at least at that moment in time).

I think much of what we have been having lately from "the street of walls" and "the made-up city" is "fabricated value" primarily and falsely constructed using Elaine's term "funny money".

Fabricated value does not equal inherent value. I think values are going to be balancing out and I think this is a good thing.

I also agree with Elaine. Nancy Pelosi should resign. Resign in shame is what I think, but that is just an opinion from one citizen. Doesn't it depend on what all the other citizen think. Ain't this what the House of Reps if for. Carrying out the will of the citizen. Well, lets see what happens.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

As an aside, yesterday was such a crazy day "on the web" I basically decided to "sit it out". Instead I put up some shelves in my garage using left-over laminate pieces. You can make awesome shelves with laminate flooring or at least I have (or at least I think they are awesome). Anyhow, I used a nice Miter saw I recently purchased (the alloy used to make this saw is incrediblly shaped) along with the circular saw, a hammer, some nails, and a few bolts an "Wa-la" some additional storage area on the cheap! Plus, it was fun to build.

I still think the dust is settling, but I have no idea where this is going to go. I'm hopeful but cautious if you know what I mean.

Peace,
Ken

P.S. I hope that little interlude didn't offend anyone...

Simon

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4848769.ece

Frank McGarahan, of Barclays Wealth dies after fight

seems to be a regular brawl, but the timing is a bit

whine & cheese

Hate to break it to you, Elaine, but people who run businesses are now calling their Congressmen demanding an intervention: they can't make payroll. The credit crisis is about the abort the real economy.

There will be a bailout. Hope against it if you must-pray, even-but it will happen.

Blunt Force Trauma

Who was 'aye' and 'noe' in yesterday's vote? And stay tuned for; BAILOUT II: THE FINAL SCREWING!

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

Blunt Force Trauma

Comment from Mike Rivero as copied from his site, 'What Really Happened'; yesterday morning:

"Update: House holds vote clock open in last-ditch effort to persuade House Members to reverse their votes!!!!

The corporate media is not even showing any shame in their desire for 11 members of the House of Representatives to be "turned" and reverse their votes!

The Representatives are SUPPOSED to represent their constituents. When the corporate media talks about "turning" 11 representatives while Pelosi holds the clock open, they are talking about subverting the most fundamental processes of our government for personal gain ... ON NATIONAL TELEVISION!

This is OBSCENE! This is like having a Presidential election and after candidate 'A' wins, hold the polls open until you CAN CLUB ENOUGH VOTERS INTO CHANGING THEIR VOTES TO MAKE CANDIDATE 'B' THE WINNER!

If this House vote is reversed (ME: which looks as though that will be the case - Thursday), this will prove that we live in a dictatorship. Congress will be forced to do what the Decider wants done.

If they pass this (ME: starting Thursday), empty your bank accounts. That is a LEGAL form of protest. They cannot arrest you or taser you for taking back your money from the banks."

Ahh. But THEY can freeze accounts to thwart that.

Blunt Force Trauma

Whine and Cheese said:

"Hate to break it to you, Elaine, but people who run businesses are now calling their Congressmen demanding an intervention: they can't make payroll."

That defeats capitalism, doesn't it? If you can 'make-a-go-of-it'...great. If not, suck it up and close shop. Let someone who was better prepared and had their ducks-in-row keep the broader economy flowing rather than seeking welfare which brings it all to an ebb. Hence, the environment we have today. Better known as 'socialism'.

"The credit crisis is about the abort the real economy."

The 'credit crisis' aborted the 'real economy' a long time ago when debt was being used to pay debt and everyone was buying all sorts of crap with money they didn't have.

Ed-M

Elaine,

As an aside now even Fortune Magazine is referring our recent economic history as scenes from a Hieronymous Bosch painting. And to the Credit Default Swaps mess as a Derivatives Beast.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/magazines/fortune/varchaver_derivatives.fortune/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

"If Hieronymus Bosch were alive today to paint a triptych called "The Garden of Mortgage Delights," we'd recognize most of the characters in the bacchanalia and its hellish aftermath. Looming largest, of course, would be the Luciferian figures of Greed and Excessive Debt. Scurrying throughout would be the Wall Street bankers who turned these burgeoning debts into exotic securities with tangled structures and soporific acronyms - CDO, MBS, ABS - that concealed the dangers within. Needless to say, we'd see the smooth-tongued emissaries of the credit-rating agencies assuring people that assets of lead could indeed be transformed into investments of gold. Finally, somewhere past the feckless Fannie Mae executives and the dozing politicians, one final figure would lurk in the shadows: a hulking and barely recognizable monster known as Credit Default Swaps . . ."

Ed-M

OK I have to break up the link again...

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/
magazines/fortune/
varchaver_derivatives.fortune/
index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

Blunt Force Trauma

Hey Ed-M, if you go to www.tinyurl.com, you can copy/paste those long urls into their 'shortener' and then copy/paste that shortened url here rather than trying to break them up which can be a pain in the arse.

Simon

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161199/page/2
I guess this is a sign the Derivative Beast is crossing over to our reality
Mainstream media is talking about it

OC

Blunt Force Trauma,

Your comments remind me of citizens protesting against Yeltsin in Russia and he send in the tanks...de ja vu!!!

The slide is definitely accelerating. Dmitry Orlov would be pleased with his predictions.

Better stock up folks and gather all your loved ones, if what he says is coming true, it's going to be a hard landing and harder than what the Russians received!!

Blunt Force Trauma

David, it is good that the mainstream is writing about it. What has to happen is an education on what derivatives actually are. One could literally ram pencils into their eyes researching and learning what they are and what it all means.

I know I have been close to that after reading about derivatives and the related acronmyns. The whole thing just sounds ridiculous and illegal. Just like naked short selling.

Blunt Force Trauma

OC said:

"Your comments remind me of citizens protesting against Yeltsin in Russia and he send in the tanks...de ja vu!!!"

I suppose after having stuck close by those stories, in their day, they have been lurching in my sub-conscience for this "bailout" event. Which, yes, you're right - deja vu! Send in the tanks! Hmm, I'm thinking that we may not want to joke about that....

Buffalo Ken


OC - I like Dmitry Orlov's site (assuming its the one I mentioned earlier here...) - compare and contrast Russia and US citizen response to "Freidman-type-goofiness". There is much to think about there, but one key difference that may not have been considered in my opinion in the "type" of infrastructure already in place in the US of A. Much of it could be so much better (can anyone say TRAINS !!!!!!), and infrastructure in general needs to be better maintained, BUT...in the US individuals have tools, there are many strucutres folks can live in, there are supplies that will still be needed that can be made locally, there are specialized supplies that could be produced centrally, we have a highly educated labor force (this could be greatly enhanced), etc. These things have value - its just a matter of trying to work together - the possibilities are endless in my opinion, but I suppose it does require a bit of humility particularly from those who have been "flying high lost in the clouds".

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

oh yeah and maybe most importantly:

SCALE MATTERS

So if you are Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton, or T. Boone Pickens or Bush or Cheney or any one of these many folks making their "big-time day-to-day decisions" --- your actions affect millions upon millions. That is large-scale. If these folks are in the clouds, then it affects many People. If these folks have lost touch with humanity, then desperately need to get it back in my humble opinion.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

But meanwhile, I sure as heck am going to focuse my efforts on tring to prepare for the worst that I hope doesn't happen because I know that it could be so much better...I can sense it.

Sorry for all these posts. Later.

Ken

Simon

I wonder what is the hurry to pass the rescue bill soon.
http://tinyurl.com/47vml4
Btw why is the house allowed to observe a foreign holiday while the workers..eh work?

Bear of Little Brain

Schiller house price index: -0.9% m-o-m Down
Chicago PMI, September: Previous: 57.9%
Actual: 56.7% Down (but above 50%)
Consumer confidence Sept: Previous: 56.9
Survey: 55.0
Actual: 59.8 Up
Houses going down, Chicago industrial survey going down, Consumer confidence going UP? Go figure.
Main ISM national survey due tomorrow, expected to be below 50%, i.e. contraction.

Bear of Little Brain

Saw Bush a while ago, via Bloomberg. Sounds like he's getting agitated about this rip-off stalling. Emergency powers coming soon?

Blunt Force Trauma

Hey Bear, if you look back about a week ago, I think I shared the same thoughts about 'Decider Guy' and that he may have a tantrum if he doesn't get his way.

Will he?

It's probable.

don

The Bank of Japan just released
19.2 billion into its financial
system, I was wondering if that deposit
was made from the 600 Billion fund?

Bear of Little Brain

BFT:
Yes, I remember something like that. Motion seconded then! George Ure has this thing about October 7 as some kind of emotional release date, or something, and has had for months. Who can tell?

BTW, did anyone bring this up?

In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

http://tinyurl.com/5ygr2m

Shoshona

It confounds me in all of this why our US Dollar is gaining value?? Seems to me that as bad off as Europe is, they're not as bad off as us because they don't run such huge budget deficits.
How does this fit into the picture you painted Elaine?

Paul S

Executive powers? I Doubt it. I think "Dubaya" has had his wings clipped. He is after all a lame duck President. I think FINALLY enough reality has penetrated this spoiled rotten rich kids brain that even "Dubaya" knows what kind of mess he has created. "Dubaya" is going to slither back to his bunker in Crawford and give big money speeches to his pals at Exxon-Mobil, Haliburton and the Carlyle Group--like daddy Bush does.

PJSV

Elaine,

ECB is about to cut interest rates to help the USD. After this measure, what can be done for the USD ?

Buffalo Ken

Paul S - maybe so.

What I wonder is --- will anyone be held accountable? Anyone at all? Have there been no mistakes made such that admittance of error just ain't going to happen? I haven't heard anyone trying to accept some responsibility. Crap - that's half the damn problem. If you think you can't make a mistake then you become "a mistake" cause you just ain't learning no more.

I want some accountability. Impeach, Try, Convict (or not), Put in Jail (or do whatever is appropriate). I think it has something to do with this concept called "Law".

I hope more citizens are clamoring for accountability. I also would like to make a call to folks who care about the land they live in plus their neighbors and friends.

Peace,
Ken

Bear of Little Brain

Gleaned the bit below from a recent article by Ty Andros:
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6530.html
Note: Fortis went "Bang!" yesterday. The ratios are terrifying.

• The dozen largest European banks now have an average overall leverage ratio (shareholders equity to total assets) of 35, compared to less than 20 for the American banks. European banks report regulatory leverage ratios of close to 10 .

• Deutsche Bank leverage ratio 50x, total liabilities 2 trillion Euros, equivalent to 80% of German GDP

• Barclays 60x, 1.3 trillion pounds, equivalent to 100% of UK GDP

• Fortis 30x, equivalent to 300% Belgium GDP

Elaine Meinel Supkis

When I went barreling into Congress, I said, 'Who made up that number???' and I knew it was a magical number.

Wall Street, according to an email I got from a broker-type ended on 777.7 yesterday and today is Rosh Hashanah. Super-religious/magical so I am guessing the reporters were told to hex it by making the news 'AROUND 777.69' instead. HAHAHA.

We have to remember this is all fantasy which is why things seem to be adhering to this strange looking story line. Or maybe a movie.

Isn't reality fun?


Also, I have noticed more and more writers are saying 'Derivatives Beast.' I should have patented that name and then sue everyone. Get rich. Darn.

Buffalo Ken

Yeah I've seen words like "transition" and "with both hands" and even somewhere I saw "like a kid in a candy store".

Anyhow numbers and language go hand-n-hand. You can't have one without the other can you? Or at least humanity can't. Or at least thats sort of how I think our brains work - along with all the incredible chemistry of course. Plus the music - its everywhere, and I sure love to listen to what other artists have come up with.

If something takes a long, long time to "wind up" its going to take awhile to wind down (not just a bit of time) --- sort of like waves that slowly dissipate. Maybe this is a better analogy than "dust settling" - who needs all the damn dust anyhow (especially, dust that is man-made).

Plus, as a total aside, I think that anyone who tries to "control biology" is in for a hard lesson. Some of these pharmaceutical companies should just be shutdown for shoveling medicines for nothing but profit.

Peace,
Ken

RobG

This was good description (Theautomaticearth):

If you go to the racetrack and bet on a horse, you receive a piece of paper that confirms the bet you made. After the race is over, you have either won your bet or lost it. There’s nothing difficult about the process, anyone can -learn to- understand it, and everyone, except in very rare circumstances, accepts it, both the winners and the losers.

What is happening in world finance these days is that a group of very heavy betters have become very heavy losers, and they have done so with borrowed money. In the past few years, in order to hide their losses, they have turned to a very clever little trick: they want to make us believe that the race is not over, even though we can all see that it is. In fact, if they have their way, the race will never be over, unless and until their horse wins.

Buffalo Ken

Sorry for getting a bit off topic.

On a brighter note is a plant (or facility if you prefer) that I think should open back up. It was in Murhpy, NC and they made screwdrivers there like you wouldn't believe. Hard resin, strong metal shaft, specialized tips with ergonomic and safety considerations built in. Quality manufacturing and made in the US of A. Small-scale, but enough screwdrivers for all of North Carolina I would speculate.

But NO, there was rapid profit using "fake money" if they shut it down and moved things around. I betcha there are some folks living in Murhpy, NC who could start that plant back up. I would buy their products as long as they maintained the quality.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

RobG - awesome!

RobG

That was a nice concise history of the Derivative Beast that Simon linked to. I just used it at lunch with someone who wondered how some mortgage defaults could collapse the financials. Here's the link again:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161199

The Monster That Ate Wall Street

How 'credit default swaps'—an insurance against bad loans—turned from a smart bet into a killer

Bear of Little Brain

Maybe you should Trade Mark "Derivatives Beast". This year's Cabbage Patch Doll!

Buffalo Ken

So did anyone here read the article about the Tanks that were "absconded" by some wily pirates of the coast of Somalia (I think I have the facts accurate).

Anyhow, US Navy Vessels surrounded the pirates with their booty and now the pirates have nowhere to go. I thought I read elsewhere that a Russian vessel is on the way (I think they were Russian tanks).

Anyhow, sounds cool to me. I'm glad the US ships were there (rather than elsewhere and especially rather than near Iran) and maybe they are already talking with the Russian Navy so that they can come kick the ass of any pirates that are still alive when they arrive (the Russian Navy that is assuming they are Russian Tanks).

Apparently three of the pirates killed themselves in some sort of fight yesterday. Pirates do not like to be trapped and when they are they have nothing to do but be pirates with each other. I expect there will be many more dead pirates in the coming days.

Of course, I could be all wrong about this excepting that part about pirates not liking it when they are aprehended. Oh well. Live and learn.

Peace,
Ken

Blunt Force Trauma

Congratulations, Corporate Crime Fighters! Coup Averted for Three Days! ...from Michael Moore

'The news anchors last night screamed it out: Americans just lost 1.2 trillion dollars in the stock market!! It's a financial Pearl Harbor! The sky is falling! Bird flu! Killer Bees!

Of course, sane people know that nobody "lost" anything yesterday, that stocks go up and down and this too shall pass because the rich will now buy low, hold, then sell off, then buy low again.

Wall Street and its propaganda arm (the networks and media it owns) will continue to try and scare the bejesus out of you. It will be harder to get a loan. Some people will lose their jobs. A weak nation of wimps won't last long under this torture. Or will we? Is this our line in the sand?'

Full article:

http://tiny.cc/v4l2B

DrKrbyLuv

Elaine touched on what I think is the most immoral part of the proposed "rescue" bill - that is that we are transcending our generation with debt. What right do we have to burden future generations with our debt? Where is the moral outcry of those who pretend to be defenders of the rights of the unborn?

Society seems to be morally numb. Why is there no demand that Barney Frank, Obama, Paulson, Chris Dodd, et al, recuse themselves from this bill/vote because of their donors/affiliations?

And our jack-ass president talks about the end of our economy like he was an observer. Why isn't he pushing his staff to find ways to slash the federal budget - stop the war machine, stop foreign aid, etc.

And the worst thing is that instead of exploring real solutions, our government is preparing to try to ram the same bill again.

And they tell us we are facing the end of our jobs, 401-ks, accumulated wealth if we don't act right now. These proclamations have virtually shut-down our markets while we wait to see what the politicians will do next.

But, they have taken the day off in observance of Rosh Hashanah. We will wait while they observe a holiday not recognized as a legal holiday in the US. The zionist have such audacity.

The elitists are over-reaching and they stand to lose their greedy hands. We still have some good political statesmen and must thank and support them so that they gain in strength of conviction.

Yesterday, Thaddeus McCotter, Republican from Michigan, quoted Andrew Jackson in a great speech:

"There are no necessary evils in government. The Treasury to you, gentlemen, is closed."

http://tinyurl.com/4omngg

Blunt Force Trauma

Ha, ha, Ken. Good one.

You just descibed, in a roundabout sort of way, Wall Street and it playerz! Elaine would be proud.

"Pirates do not like to be trapped and when they are they have nothing to do but be pirates with each other. I expect there will be many more dead pirates in the coming days."

'Pirates' in the first sentence describes Gollum Sucks, JP Morgan, Paulson, Bernanke, Decider Guy and the banking cabal.

'Pirates' in the second sentence refers to banks themselves.

JT

Tax oil? In USA?
Wheeeee... i have to sit down. Come on. There´s all kinds of talk on this blog about revolutions, wars, pitchforks in the asses of rich people, honour before money, but this is blastemy!
I guess there´s red alert and all kinds of whistles going off at Echelon now.
Even the skull of Geronimo has to have some kind of ultra emergency light inside.
Tar and feathers for this sorcerer lady of the mountain, quickly please.
:D

Buffalo Ken

From what I have heard/read Andrew Jackson fought the banks in the interest of citizens - for that I will give him credit. However, for what he is partly responsible for associated with the "first inhabitants" is damn near unforgiveable expecially when he claimed to be a "Man of the People". Nonetheless, I suppose whats done is done.

The banks need to morph into something useful for everyone utilizing the banks; otherwise they serve no purpose besides their own gain. That ain't right. In fact, its downright troubling and this should be obvious. Concentrated power is NOT in the interst of the People. Not anymore; not anyway - because we can all talk with "each other" so rapidly today. We are connected moreso than ever I think.

"Grand Schemes" involving future indebtedness will be found out and those who keep trying to go with the Old Status Quo will become more and more evident. Seems this way to me.

Oh yeah, and the People - The People have the numbers. This is obvious because everyone in equal - doesn't it say this in several important documents?

Peace,
Ken

Blunt Force Trauma

Hey Dr.,

"And they tell us we are facing the end of our jobs, 401-ks, accumulated wealth if we don't act right now."

Sounds like the fear mongering by the lamestream media that Micheal Moore speaks of in the article above.

Accept this or DIE. Now!

Of course, after today's markets close, the presstitutes will write that the markets were up and all is well.

The DOW, currently, is up 261 points to 10,626.7 No where near a recovery that they may exaggerate about when the DOW is 500-odd points away from it's open yesterday at 11,142.

Buffalo Ken

JT - I need to get a pitchfork. I don't have one yet.

They could never catch Elaine for any punishiment - at least not in my imagination!

Peace,
Ken

JT

Peace, Ken.
Pitchforks are a powerful image, that might be a good thing to wave at a demonstration by the way.
I bet that would put some nightmares in sleep of the ruling elites :).
I think Elaine would love that idea. She´s the specialist on this kind of thing.

Blunt Force Trauma

JT said:

"Tax oil? In USA?"

You're thinking that it doesn't happen or that it can't? What is blasphemous about it saying that it exists?

The distillate product of oil is gasoline and it is taxed at the retail level:

http://tiny.cc/Fqm5i

OR is this what you mean?

Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Act of 1980, United States

http://tiny.cc/gWCZo


Blunt Force Trauma

...or were you just being facetious, JT?

DrKrbyLuv

Elaine,

Earlier, you had mentioned that the federal government's fiscal year may end in September.

Is this in some way, the reason for the "bums rush" to grab $700 billion? For example, is it possible that the financial reports will formally establish that the US is insolvent?

Please give us a little insight...

JT

"not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark"
I had to look that up in a dictionary ;). Yes I was trying that.

I knew oil is taxed already in US, but not too heavily.
In my country gas is now 1.49€ per litre with 0.81 eurocent total taxes ($7,90 per gallon with $4.27 total tax per gallon).

Thank you for the link.
Did I understand corretly that with federal tax there now roughly 0.40 cents tax per gallon depending on state?

JT

Blunt:
and "Tar and Feathers" is courtesy of Morris-Goscinny and Lucky Luke comics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Luke.
Hehee... my favorite as a kid.
Just read that it was a belgian comic and never popular over there. So my facetiousnesness effort was a total failure. Cultural differences I guess..
All the best!

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