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whine@cheese

Elaine, I do have an idea for a movement that will crippple the establishment: the anti-consumerism movement. Across the nation, we need to have a league of buxom babes advocate frugality as a patriotic obligation that will starve the cancer known as the banking cartel.
People always believe beautiful women: that's why they used enuchs in the old days!

Simon

Some 'hedge funds' are anything but, and they thrive on turning over the stocks to generate large amount of commissions. I know this since a honest fund manager who buy and hold can out perform heavily leveraged hedge fund most of the time.
Volatility like risk, cannot really be made to disappear, and events like last month makes it impossible and most traders have to go flat

As far as revolutions go most fail, a right wing coup is far more likely to succeed. This is why most struggles are reactionary. Only with great organisation skill and determination can the left succeed.

Grok

"The ONLY way you can effect change is to go to the left and join forces! This is why I opened up the frontal debate about socialism and the meaning of Marx and all that. If you all can't grasp the importance of this, well. That's life! Full of frustrations."

Elaine, I totally agree with the above. My concern however, is the demonization of the left by the MSM and our educational system. Very effective brainwashing.

During revolutionary times (an economic collapse e.g.) the "center" evaporates and forces the masses to move left or right. In the early 1930's, the German people were fairly equally split between the left and right. The industrialists ultimately sided with Hitler and he immediately went after the leaders of the left (Marxists)...even before the Jews, gypsy's, and handicapped. This is what I fear in the U.S. The groundwork has been set (see Naomi Kline) for reactionary forces to prevail. Class consciousness is as rare as hens teeth in the U.S. Americans are always looking for a savior. Making them quite ripe for a dictator. Uniting with a common goal and purpose is an alien concept to many in this country. And the petty squabbles between those on the left are disheartening too. Much like you described with the Black Panthers and Trotskyites.

I suppose, other than venting some of my cynicism, I am wondering if you have seen or heard of anything positive from the left? Something to give an old cynic reason for optimism?

anonymous

One correction Elaine:

According to media here in China, news report in Chinese for domestic Chines audience says Hu talked to Bush Jr. via BUSH'S REQUEST.

There will be a huge summit meeting between major Asian and European state leaders this weekend in Beijing. It was scheduled a year ago though.

Rowan

Compliments,Elaine,

That really is a "Dear Little Magic Pig".

I suspect it will soon be ALL GOBBLED UP by the Derivatives Beast. This should be a very Gory event.

All we can expect to see will be a few
gnawed bones, if anything.

Buffalo Ken

I've always thought "Dennis Kucinich-democrats" and "Ron Paul-republicans" could form a strong alliance. Very strong. As a member of the Green Party that is an alliance I have a feeling I'd support. Fiscal responsibility I suspect would be the primary unifying factor between the sides. Obviously there would have to be some agreeing to disagreeing and such....how's that for some optimism Grok?

Elaine - did you say the law was only 1" long? What a shame. I ready about Chicago-Fitz today - he sure skipped out of DC. Anyhow, the law might just be 1" in the US of A, but the scale of law are resolute.

Peace,
Ken

Zelphyr

Anything associated with Marx is doomed to fail. Marx was a failure. Communism and socialism as preached by Marx are failures, which is why China got off the bandwagon after milking Russia for everything they had.

There needs to be a new way, a balanced mix of capitalism, socialism and intelligence. Look to Singapore for a model, even the China chinese aspire for that.

Go back to classical prairie/frontier life and expand from there. The family works hard but keeps its own in bread and health. The head of family rules by experience and merit, yet needs to listen to all family members.

In socialism, the workers are brainless masses guided from above...it's all a prison-like hell vision.

PJSV

Elaine

please read this:
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6892.html

Elaine Meinel Supkis

My family was 'frontier' from 1600 onwards. Namely, we kept moving west, ending up in California by 1848.

And, pray tell, how did we do this?

Well.....we killed or drove off the natives, used slave labor in the south, and we stole everything. Bingo!

History is a bitch and the biggest bitches are people who rule the world and steal stuff.


By the way,

The people stuck out on the prairies afterwards, the second and third waves, ended up pretty poor.

Simon

Once you run out of slaves and indentured servants you have those massive empires left over to start equally huge wars like WWI
Colonialism is a nice touch when fighting stone aged people, however it won't fly at current world where plans for nuclear bombs can be downloaded from internet and ieds are better killers than clusterbombs.

ralph

Dear Elaine,
I will be at the NY FED on Nov 22nd. Please come down!!! We must get back to hard money, and honest banking. The shadow bank system is basically dead anyway.Lets strike while the iron is hot!!!

Buffalo Ken

I think I have encountered some pretty big bitches - usually, I just ignore them. I don't know for sure though, cause whenever I think I've seen the meanest bitch another one even meaner emerges......there are a lot of mean bitches out there, but they better not try to steal any of my stuff cause I will defend.

Now for a bit of stream of consciousness - there is this Suzanne Vega song entitled "The Queen and the Soldier". It didn't end well for the soldier in that song, but the soldier was stupid for going to the castle in the first place.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

Anyhow Elaine, no offense meant, but if "your family" kicked-ass all the way to california, then why are you in upstate New York? This Carolina Fella is curious?

Are you different from the rest of your family? Only to a degree is it possible.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

But I'm sure you already knew that cause everything has limits - even everything - even infinity. Zero is imaginary so it is inherently limited.

Just a bit-a-number talk.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

Infinity is limited in time because as time goes by infinity constantly GROWS into something new......this is part of the reason why time travel is NOT possible.

Sorry for the digression although in my opinion calculus needs to be "revisited" because of the many errors it has introduced into folk's way of thinking about little things.

The term "socialism" seems to be a bit meaningless now because no one can even agree upon its definition, but I think some of the concepts underlying socialism have deep merit.

Later,
Ken

ziff house

A comment from somewhere;

''A new Bretton Woods Agreement is the institutionalizing of the US Federal Reserve as the lender of last resort for NATO economies as well as a few others.''

it may be crazy as hell , but if the alternative is hell everyone will agree to it. Long live the MIGHTY USA $. This is starting to look like a consolidation of US power with everyone beholden to the Dollar.

Buffalo Ken

and what the hell.

I'd also like to put out a debate challenge. In fact, this could be the first debate in the imaginary Constitutional Convention going on in my mind.

Does the government even need an "Executive"?

I'll argue either side, but I already know which side I'm on - at least in this debate.

The Executive needs to be diminished - Big-Bit-Time-Tib-Tub-Tab-Time; Big-time time. Big time diminished. Crap, I said "later" above. OK, this time I mean it.

Peace,
Ken

Elaine Meinel Supkis

No, Ziff. The booby prize is whoever is the trade currency. You see, everyone wants a US peg so they can flood us with imports. The Nixon floating currency scheme was set up to prevent this by having the dollar lose value whenever anyone imports too much.

The exporting nations then began to use their FOREX reserves of dollars to keep their own currencies super-cheap. The Japanese held euros, too for the same reason.

This is now causing gigantic trade imbalances! They want this fixed by making it much worse for the US. Isn't that sweet?


Ralph, I will let you know my plans when the 22nd of November comes nearer. Will probably stay at my daughter's place.

Buffalo Ken

ziff house - you must be crazy - who would be beholden to a piece of paper?

As is becoming more evident each passing hour, paper is losing value rapidly.

Peace,
Ken

wuen

Greeting,

As a Canadian, I hope american society will live in peace and harmony. It will stop using army troop to solve internal and external politic problems or to enrich a few corporations. I believe that to make this happen in the short term, there will be need of a revolution base on some theories (idealogies). What is this theories is up to the american to decide, because there will be no help from outside of America, who can understand or want, to solve your current financial and political problem.

As a outsider, I cannot help american, but I can support your revolution for peace and harmony by give you some strange advice from me. I believe there is a object that inhibit your revolution inside of every american household. This object can manipulate the feeling of the people. By using a lot of this object, it can confuse the mind. To be able to participate in a revolution that bring benefit to oneself and not lead to astray, the mind must be free from this object. The object I am talking about is the television, not computer. What I'm saying may sound strange, but I believe the tv cause people to lose their own mind, because it create a make-believe world. So I hope the first great act of this revolution will be to ditch your television to the dumpster. That fist step will show the will of the people to improve their life or bring real change.

Best revolution to you all

ziff house

Ken, in fact with each passing hour the dollar is gaining and hard currencies are losing.
I am crazy, but i want someone to counter what is becoming the prevaling view.

Buffalo Ken

I don't really understand the united states dollar thing either...cause it seems counter-intuitive; however, the "derivative pool" is immensely deep amongst those whose lives depend upon paper, and so perhaps they can use this seemingly unlimited supply of "collateral" (or maybe even some other collateral in some cave somewhere) to change day-to-day movements even over periods of weeks (months?)....BUT, its a dead end road and I think they know. Its mainly a dead end road for those who are pushing all the buttons that are making this fiscal fiasco continue...."feffef is fuffing tired of the bullshit"....the longer they do it the worse it will be for them....INDIVIDUALLY in my opinion. The rest of us should not be made to suffer from the mistakes of just a FEW. A few who need to get some religion when it comes to LAW. So there you have. My view for what it is worth.

Peace,
Ken

ziff house

from the link posted by PJSV above;;

''But across the emerging world, external bank loans have dried up - creating a scramble for foreign currency liquidity. ''

I don' t fully understand this either, but the point is, they are scrambling for dollars not oil , gold.

Buffalo Ken

But you know what I don't really care about the US dollar's ups and downs. I just want to abolish the fake-ass Federal Reserve. Liars from the get go - even with the name. I think I said this months ago. So did many other regular posters here.

Elaine points out the incredible conflict of interest with Paulson and besides hyper-hypocrisy, there is no explanation for this most inappropriate arrangement taken at face. It is a travesty and and indictment upon the character of the US government --especially out of DC.

1st amendment "right" or not, I'm gonna say it how I sense it and I encourage others to do likewise. Also, as I've said before I support and participate in "Direct Action" and I recognize the beauty of "Mutual Aid" and "Appropriate Technology".

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

Two links - one has "kropotkin" if it doesn't show due to length. Also, you can Google "Direct Action". OK - I suppose I better shutup for awhile, but "blues" did you see my mention regarding "composite" materials as well as the membrane-reference? As a chemical engineer, I think certain composite materials could take the place of gold for specific applications and membranes are likely to be essentially critical.

Anyhow, here are the sites:

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_archives/kropotkin/mutaidcontents.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriate_technology

Peace,
Ken

RobG

Ahhh, yes, back to that 'robust framework' for CDS's:

NEW YORK, Tuesday, October 21, 2008 – Robert Pickel, Chief Executive Officer of the International Swaps and Derivatives Association, Inc. (ISDA) today commented on the cash settlement of CDS trades on Lehman Brothers and on certain misperceptions in relation to the CDS industry.

The cash settlement deadline for Lehman is today, October 21. Based on industry estimates, a total of $6bn to $8bn is expected to have changed hands by close of business. This is approximately 1% to 2% of the $400 billion in CDS trades referencing Lehman and does not account for the effects of collateral, which will further reduce the payment amounts.

“Today’s settlement demonstrates that the industry infrastructure for CDS clearly works,” said Mr. Pickel. "ISDA and its members have developed a robust legal and operational framework that governs and guides industry participants through defaults and credit events, and that includes well-established procedures for evaluating, netting and settling outstanding trades. Recent developments in the financial markets underscore the value of the industry’s collective efforts."

DrKrbyLuv

Thanks for the “END the FED” plug, I agree this is an important first step in an ongoing campaign to abolish the criminal Federal Reserve System.

As stated earlier, the “END the FED” national rallies will take place on 11:22:08 and are intended as a kick-off to an ongoing campaign to educate and organize the public and take concerted, planned action. Protests will be held in the following 38 cities:

Boston, Philadelphia, New York City, Buffalo, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Richmond, Baltimore, Charlotte, Atlanta, Birmingham, Jacksonville, Miami, Nashville, New Orleans, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Little Rock, Louisville, Memphis, Minneapolis, Helena, Kansas City, Denver, Oklahoma City, Omaha, Dallas, El Paso, Houston, San Antonio, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Portland, Salt Lake City, Seattle, Washington, D.C.

For more info and to sign-up for the protest, go to:
http://www.endthefed.us/

Most of the Ron Paul “Campaign for Liberty” meet-up groups are planning to participate. You will find a local group; internationally (US, Europe, Great Britain, Australia, Middle East, etc.), at:
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/

If like Elaine, you are heading for New York (that’s where the real power of the Fed resides), you might want to contact NY’s “Freedom Minded People”:
http://www.meetup.com/campaignforlibertynyc/

It might be a good idea for you; Elaine, to contact the New York group to gain a better understanding of the Ron Paul movement. You will find people of every race, creed, gender and age. Some might be gun rights advocates, some liberals, some conservatives and some democrats-republicans-third party and all coming together in the pursuit of freedom (especially financial freedom).

And, just to inspire everyone….

http://tinyurl.com/6kqycc

Grok

For those who could use a chuckle........

http://tinyurl.com/3g4p2j

KC

Great post, Elaine, and very nice flying pig! You are telling it like it is, as we used to say. You are not trying to sell gold or investment advice, or any of that. That's why I take what you say very seriously.

Average people make their buying decisions based on monthly cost. When interest rates were low you got more house for what felt like little money. Of course, you also got more debt, which is strangling people now. Same thing with automobiles and trucks. People now find themselves upside down in loans for the same trucks that dealers are selling at half price.

The elite who created this mess knew this would happen. They must be deeply cynical and as greedy as you say. They have revealed the utmost contempt for their prey, the "little people" who wanted to be ghetto fabulous in one form or another.

Tupac said: "It's the game of life. Do I win or do I lose? One day they're gonna shut the game down. I gotta have as much fun and go around the board as many times as I can before it's my turn to leave."

Buffalo Ken

I don't know about the pig and how could anyone die from "sexual frustrations". For an individual, sex is not essential - oh but I know, sex is nice. Regardless, sexual frustration is not fatal - so thinks feffef.

Hey where is "Blunt Force Trauma" to tell us that the DOW is so down? Hell, everything I own is down, but I don't care - just a big casino thats soon going to implode and I ain't going to be inside when that happens.

Oh KC - nice site.

Peace,
Ken

jeff roby

Elaine,

The political bind is that we have to move left, which means organizing the working class, the poor, as well as threatened sectors of the middle class. But with the right in power, they have a short-term interest in having money pumped into the system to preserve their very lives. If the working class is destroyed, there is no social force for change, and the best we can hope for is for the Chinese to start opening up soup kitchens in the U.S. maybe 50 years down the line.

There is no equivalency between keeping food on the tables of working families and funding the parachutes of the rich. But the rich want to play it that way. And unfortunately, liberals and progressives buy into that logic, some gleefully, some kicking and screaming, but nonetheless buying in.

I wish I had clear answers. But thank god you're asking the right questions.

homero guajardo @ yahoo.com

The High Price of Bullion
by David Ricardo
1810

If in the progress towards wealth, one nation advanced more rapidly than the others, that nation would require and obtain a greater proportion of the money of the world. Its commerce, its commodities, and its payments, would increase, and the general currency of the world would be divided according to the new proportions. All countries therefore would contribute their share to this effectual demand.

In the same manner if any nation wasted part of its wealth, or lost part of its trade, it could not retain the same quantity
of circulating medium which it before possessed. A part would be exported, and divided among the other nations till the usual proportions were re-established.

Connection: At this moment all of us that don’t have the inside information are just guessing. Here is my best guess based on the paragraphs transcribed above:

Asia is now claiming its fair share of the world’s gold. If the US tries to devalue de dollar in terms of gold, Asia threatens not to lend the US any more dollars- one billion a day is what the US needs. So it is the Asians that are forcing the dollar’s value to strengthen in terms of gold, this way they can acquire more of the precious metal. They have plenty of dollars to buy gold. This gold buying by the Asians will come to an end when they have enough gold and then the US dollar will plummet like a rock in water. It will not take long for the stocks of bullion are not that big.


PLovering

Benny and Hanky's dirty little secret.

http://market-ticker.org/archives/618-Congress-What-Bernanke-and-Hank-Arent-Telling-You.html

Buffalo Ken

homero quajardo @ yahoo.com

That sort of makes sense except I think "Asia" (which from a national standpoint doesn't exist as a single entity) would be wise to not let the dollar "crash" because they might still have plenty left over after they get the gold.....at that time why not let the dollar find its natural value, but nice and steady so as to keep essentially unneccesary chaotic disturbances to an absolute minimum. It would probably be in everyone's interest to keep the chaos down. Just one possibility I suppose.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

And from that standpoint (assuming "Asia" can get the gold..) why would "Asia" really care about the value of the dollar. Best bet would be just to spend it ALL on the last chunk of gold. Then "Asia" might have something of value without being stuck with some possibly worthless United States dollars....

....of course, if there is more gold than this ("Asia's currency surplus") to go around, then what the hell is the problem - how bout spreading that gold around if this is the case. Silver too. In fact, especially the silver - physical silver seems to be hard to come by just now.

Anyhow, obviously the US is broke fiscally...and militarily, just to be frank, the US of A has shown incompetence at the highest levels, so I doubt that buys the US of A much. Still, there is considerable infrastructure in the US of A - as poorly kept up as it has been - that is of value and "foreign interest" should not be allowed to own the People's infrastructure. It is in our backyards - literally.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

Plus, hells bells...how about some tariffs for items we can make ourselves especially to facilitate a bit of balance during this time of trade-disarray.

Global trade is a farce for the few that would make Adam Smith roll over in his grave.

Gracious.

Buffalo Ken

And lastly, Israel is NOT sacrosanct. No country is. People on the other hand. People are sacrosanct. All People. All languages. Racism is nothing but the derivative of a few who like to spew hate for their own unscrupulous, hideous, and ultimately death-fulfilling short-term and short-lived benefit. The republicans party as presented by the media has been most adept in this regard during that last little while. The democrats support it also in their own sham-filled shameful way. Thats why I thinkt he democrats should be the first to go because they are so fake. Although the republicans are so hateful, maybe they need to depart the scene first. I just want at least one of them out of the picture for good. The bankers are basically already on the way out - big time. Better ideas are emerging.

You reap what you sow.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

To end my ramble, let me say one more time I support the November 22 "END the FED" protests - thank you DrKrbyLuv and Elaine and all other who recognize that unless their is Direct Action we will just be herded as has been done so often in the past.

I see that one of the cities is Charlotte - well it ought to be cause there used to be a bunch of banks here - I don't know what the future holds -- do you?

5 Makes Peace - maybe?
Ken

DrKrbyLuv

The "left-right" political spectrum is an engineered charade in the game the elites play for our reality. Opinions and bogus issues are baked daily on TV and in education.

Danger! Terror! Give up your rights to catch the boogie man!

He's a muslim! He's black! He will destroy the country!

Bush and Obama, McCain's and Rupert Murdoch, Colin Powell and Paulson, are all front men or puppets, dangled by those who are really in control.

We are taught to fight and have the conflict of bogus ideas and generalizations that lead to suspicion, problems,stress, and confusion. This is on purpose to keep us away from the issues and ideas that really matter. We find some solace and comfort from those who seem to be in the same group.

For example, it should matter little who controls the government; the issue is does the government control us or do we control the government. The government should fear the people but instead we are divided and in the end, we fear the government.

Both parties are corrupted by the real powers. We should never use the labels that they give us in forming opinions. This is a waste of time.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

I am very excited about the coming demonstrations. I want very much to photograph them, interview people and in all sorts of ways, learn what motivates people and why they came and how they found out!

This is very important: I feel that there is tremendous energy in the young sector of our nation: people under 35 years are always the bedrock for change! And I know that this is where much of the future energy lies.

People think our youth are slackers but under the facade lies a lot of intelligence and energy. I seriously enjoy talking to and learning what they think!

At the Paulson/Bernanke hearings were some very activist young men and women who were also wonderfully funny, they are the ones who held up the signs mocking Bernanke! They are a treasure.

GK

I am very confident that the rulers of our country, foreign and domestic, will pay lots of attention to these protests and return our country to sounds money.

HAHAHA! HAHAHA!! HAHAHA!!!!

http://dailydoseofterror.blogspot.com/2008/10/pandemic-americas-final-solution.html

Albright, Biden and Powell have all chimed in about a generated crisis to test manchurian puppet Obama when he gets selected to read scripts for the elites. This threataganda seems to be timed to coincide with the collapse of the US financial system when Obama takes office. It seems that a man made pandemic(read U.S. Military strain of a weaponized virus) will be unleashed. This would be the best way to manage the masses during a severe downturn - We can't have people gettting together during a depression now can we. When your neighbors get sick, you are going to tell them to get the fuck away from you, perfect way to keep people isolated and afraid, and most importantly, ready for whatever solution these sick fucks have schemed to cull and manage the herds. Please take time to read the 1st link below.

http://dotconnectoruk.blogspot.com/2008/10/so-what-were-top-military-commanders.html

Elaine Meinel Supkis

GK, Any time we can get together, en mass, we are troubling the rulers. I very, very, VERY much encourage this! Bravo to Dr.Kirby for telling us about this great opportunity to be heard.

don

Frontline on PBS last night-"HEAT"
Elaine, you wrote about this a few months
ago. If the Fed and Treasury doesnt destroy
humanity, the CO2 will. Congress and not one corporation is spending any money to curb these emissions. The Cement companies are some of the worse. Its a two hour program; that is scary, the glaciers are melting and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Even burning corn ethanol wont help. Now China and Pakiston are fighting on
the west border for water rights. Great program. Maybe the money being wasted on Wall Street should go fighting CO2.......

ziff house

Don, worse yet, there is the suddenly worse problem of 'dead ocean' or anerobic zones along coastlines. The credit explosion and the constant 'growth' are killing the planet, not just the economy.

Buffalo Ken

don - I so appreciate your posts, just about every one of them, but really you can't "fight" CO2 - but I suspect you already know that. CO2 is nothing but a chemical --- it is in our cokie-coca-cola (betcha they might have some interesting ideas amongst their researchers), it is liberated by yeast in so many processes, and oh yeah fossil fuel has concentrated carbon (but not the same concentration as a diamond) that we been burning as if we live in hell and their ain't no tomorrow.

Anyhow, CO2 emissions can be phased out rapidly to a more appropriate level and this is going to happen one way or the other. Oil and other carbon-based "resources" supplied from the ground can be used for the most beneficial purposes. Ecologically speaking, we are at the crossroads of serious choice when it comes to carbon.

Hey, here is a site I found today. Why do we have Palin (so to speak), when this is another voice from Alaska:

http://www.mikegravel.us/

I supported Gravel early on, just like I supported Kucinich and Ron Paul. Why are these voices not being heard in the large-scale media - makes ya wonder doesn't it. Large-scale for whom? Not me. Not most of us I think.

I'm going to try to be involved in the November 22nd protest and I'm going to encourage those I know to try to be involved also.

Peace,
Ken

ziff house

Just found my way to Denningers site, boy he's really good. But I'm still puzzled by the role that dollar hegemony will play in this.
Headline:
''WORLD BANKS RUSH TO AQUIRE CURRENCY THAT WILL SOON COLLAPSE!!!'

Buffalo Ken

Hey ziff house - maybe they have a death wish. Maybe it is going to come true for them - why anyone would have such a wish is a mystery to me.

Peace,
Ken

Buffalo Ken

Its like the name "Grateful Dead" - some of their music is awesome, but I just don't understand the name....what is the idea behind that? Regardless, the music is what really matters.

Peace,
Ken

P.S. No offense meant for any Grateful Dead fans out there....

don

Ziff:the program talks about how the co2 is killing
the algae in the ocean..you are correct..and Ken,
I didnt know how bad it was until I watched
that program, its worse than I initially thought.
thank you.......

OC

Elaine,

More bad news:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/623-The-Stark-Choice-Now-Facing-America.html

Better stock up on everything; it's going to hit the wall within weeks. The chain reaction will start once this happens and eventually spread globally just like Asia'97. Any country which is not on strong financial grounds will go down for good. The chain reaction will stop after all the weak ones are down and the strong ones and walking dead left standing. The next 5 years will see many walking dead finally collapse if no help arrives. All this in a matter of few months. God help us if what Karl predicts come true.

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