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"McCain's motto is, 'More houses for me and my friends'." What a twirp. The guy has Stockholm Syndrome.

"We will have no recession tomorrow but we will face total economic annihilation in 2012." Why 2012? This year seems to be earmarked as a mystical watershed year.

The Japanese may be sly, but they have no military to speak of, so how could they ever pose a real threat to the West? Has there ever been an example of a rich nation with no military might existing as a real power in the past? I can't think of one. Wouldn't Japan fall like the Aztecs did before Cortez, if we so chose? Or do we underestimate the true ability of Japan to damage us, if they so chose? My guess is that the Chinese are currently the most dangerous nation on earth. The Chinese, as you say, "have hedged things sufficiently that if we do rip them off, they can destroy us."

There are so many things happening so fast, so many things peaking at the same time, that the next few years will be without comparison to anything in the past. Chris Martenson has detailed this in his video series "Crash Course." Excellent stuff. Here's the link to his chapter on Peak Oil:



The Chinese are going to rescue U just like what US did to UK back in WWII...the alternative is to become USSR..total national destruction. US will not come back like Russia...it will break up like Yugoslavia into 3 or 4 pieces run by different racial groups. The former USSR is run by Russians who are the main racial group. So who is going to arise from the ashes of USA after implosion??? Who will become the American 'Chechen'???

Better think real hard 'cos thanks to Bush, that is going become a real possibility next year. No offense but we have to think out of the box now. There are no road maps as we are about to enter the twilight zone.



This is just my personal observation regarding the fundamental difference to the way East runs their empires and the West. West strive on Chaos - because the West are racial minorities trying to control empires made up of other races that are larger in numbers than themselves. To prevent loss of control, they have to constantly create chaos through their empires. Any group that gets too rich or big will get cut down to size. That method started with Greece or perhaps even Egypt. There is always constant danger of sudden collapse/loss of power. The center gets rich by looting. Hence the need for military power. Not much have change over 3000 years eh?? Fundamental approach is instability and chaos within empire is a necessity for survival.

The Eastern empire is based on large racial groups whereby other races play only minor roles like buffer states. They prefer 'peace' as it enables the upper class to 'milk' the lower classes to the max for generations. Very unlikely to suffer loss of power and control as the main group is in charge. Being the largest group in the empire, they tend to 'impose' peace and order so as to benefit themselves most (Russian & Chinese are based on this model). Hence the armies tend to be less well off as the military are viewed as the major threat to the empire.

Right now, US is threatening to upset the balance in the Chinese scheme by imploding faster than their wildest expectations. I think what the Chinese want to do is to impose their 'order' after the implosion and reduce the fallout of that implosion as quick as possible. However, they will not put themselves at risk by imperial overstretch witch is why they will go for a division of spoils rather than the American unipolar approach. A lot will depend on what the new US administration plan to do after the implosion. Can't stop the implosion - it's too late.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

OC, you are closer than most here.

About timing: 2012 is an election year, not a mystic year except for the satanistic groups that use 'magic numbers' and these are often ruling class idiots in the US and England...many of them belong to mystic groups that use this system. So if they panic, all falls apart.

Or worse, if they decide it is time to start a war because, say, a certain useless Duke is shot by some Serbs....WWI started based on a totally idiotic event.

WWII began very, very slowly with Italy, Germany and Japan imitating the British and French empires which expanded greatly after WWI even though both were really bankrupt. So Germany, Italy and Japan said, 'The League of Nations is a farce, a front for other empires,' and thus, killed it.

The UN has been a front organization for nuclear powers who have bombs. But it has been rapidly collapsing as more and more nations get nuclear bombs while the UN Security council clings to the Euro-american centric model of imperial power. Despite being forced to have China join.

About all my readers confused by my talk about socialism: conversations about this topic are maddeningly poor because most people grew up, unwittingly, buried deep in propaganda. Now, in the communist nations, they all recognize this fact and this is why former communists are far, far smarter capitalists than Americans, for example.

Americans, fettered by ignorance, are lousy capitalists. Can anyone guess that we are seeing a classic 'opposite forces' reaction here?

Namely, those people taught that capitalism is evil are the best capitalists? And the biggest socialist nations are taught that communism is evil and thus, are rapidly destroying capitalism as it turns into state-sponsored internationalist-socialism based on the Nazi model?

Yes, the Nazi model is by far, the one the elites prefer! Take Israel, for example: it has cradle to grave socialism sponsored by the state but this is ONLY for Jews, not the natives. Yet it is a capitalist society but is mostly funded by the US government via US taxpayers and operates like Switzerland or other bank havens.

It is the ideal that many wish for. The US right wing totally supports the basic concept of Israel WHICH IS TOTALLY RACIST.

Demanding I 'prove' this is just a waste of my time. The proof is all over the place and deliberate blindness to this can't be fixed by myself. It is an internal, emotional problem. The US Christian right wing white power movement is very, very strong and filled to the brim with a curious racism that can be easily examined.

Just go to any such community and tell a 'nigger' type joke. I guarantee that the results will be obvious and unfortunate.


I don't think US has come to the total collapse stage yet. Slowing down and stagnation, yes
Total collapse, no. The world is also not ready for such fall-out
Current institutions such as law enforcement and utilities still hold, and the military qill hopefully withdraw from the peripheral adventures such as Afghanistan / Iraq once the next president is elected
Even if there is a general depression it would be like the former soviet union, with the massive nuclear arsenal deter the foreign hostile nations but not internal separatists


"..the federal government has now become a part owner of several U.S. banks, after forcing bank executives to sell the government ownership rights in the banks. How much more socialistic can one get than public (i.e., government) ownership of the means of production? Isn’t that one of core elements of socialism?

In fact, wasn’t “centralization of credit” one of the ten planks of the Communist Manifesto? "



@ Dutch Idiot~
What are you going on about? DeVaul is exactly right about our "Keynesian Military." It has gotten so bad that the right-wing nutbags at work are maintaining that all inventions "all come from the US military. Without them, America wouldn't have any inventions."

Yes--my old in-law has the benefit of military largesse. And she wasn't even in it--her dead husband was, so she gets the pension bennies. Free or cheap prespcriptions. Shopping privileges at the PX. Cheap prescriptions for her kids. Base housing! When the base closed in their homestate, they moved 2 states over to be near the next one! What the hell!!

Why do I have to join this organization to make you happy??? Why does DeVaul???

I think that every poor person who does not have health insurance should be allowed to go to the nearest base for their health care!

If we are going to have a standing army in this country, then these guys can sure-enough provide health care to our citizens! Our citizens pay taxes! And that is where the military gets its money from! So lets see them really "serve!"

Buffalo Ken

Here it is 911 on 1022 give or take some.

I've now looked in Merriam Webster's Collegiate 11th, the Concise Oxford English 11th, the New Oxford American 2nd, and Webster's New Twentieth Century - Unabridged 2nd - Deluxe Color Dictionaries.

The definitions in the first three (the newer ones) all seemed rather undesirable to me. There was one in the Webster's Unabridged 2nd (1977) that seemed a bit more what I had always "imagined" socialism to be. Anyhow this definition was as follows (bottom right on page 1722):

1. the theory or system of the ownership and operation of the means of production and distribution by society or the community rather than by private individuals, with all members of society or the community sharing in the work and the products.

I think this can be applied in many ways both small-scale and larger where Individual Rights remain intact including the right to "own" property. I also think essentially all transportation that passes through "public land" should be commonly owned - both the costs, and the profits, if there are any. Plus public transportation should be free - the more riders you have the more money will be saved in reduced maintenance costs.


Elaine Meinel Supkis

Lots of magic numbers in your posting, Buffalo. Heh.

Buffalo Ken

Elaine - that "magic number" stuff just sort of seems inherent to me!

But let me say something to everyone out there, if you can get your hands on Webster's New Twentieth Century Unabridged 2nd Edition - Deluxe Color (1977), I'd do it. This is a great dictionary. It was a gift from my wife's "Mississippi" grandma to her grandaughter. This is the dictionary that still had "inwit" in it. Being inwit is so important - don't you think?


PK Scott

I don't go to the Mall and shop. I go to the feed store for critter food, the hardware store for fencing supplies and tools, and to the grocery store to stockpile bulk food. I spend most of my time and energy trying to increase the productivity and security of my property.

I count every penny and not because I have to.
About a year ago I started a concerted effort to cut recurring expenses to the bone. I have an antenna and no cable. I used DIAL UP internet untill it totally crapped out after IKE. I went with the next cheapest plan. I cut our telecommunications by more than 1/2. I pay for insurance 6 months or 1 year at a time to avoid "administrative fees." We paid off all debt except debt we had locked in at rates LESS than current "official" inflation. I have cash reserves to pay it completely off in the event that that changes. My family can make it a minimum of 6 months without a pay check and experience no hardship. (We even have a fall back position with ZERO overhead if that becomes necessary.)
While I may be "unemployable" I have considerable practical skills that would be barterable if the economy goes completely bust.
In other words I am an atypical "middle-aged" woman, and if the thought of me not going to the mall is fearsom to the PTB, they must be trembling in their boots.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

PK, you are like me. Love it!

We ended up living on virtually nothing for nearly 10 long years while pursuing a court case about my husband's severe work injuries [chemical poisoning in a lab].

It is quite possible to do this but requires a lot of time, attention and dumpster diving. As well as hunting, fishing, etc.


EMS, you got me. There are countless examples of overt racism in America. I could argue that most of the whites who acted this way felt deservedly threatened by the Feds actions and were simply defending their "rights."

I don't know what world you grew up in, but we watched all the civil rights mayhem on our TV as though it were happening in a foreign land. Where I grew up all people asked for was to be Left Alone. Period.
They didn't care about skin color one way or the other. We had two black families who lived peacefully alongside an entire town of whites. They were as much a part of the landscape as the trees and the sky.
Yes, some high school punks got drunk one graduation night and burned down the colored church in town. Morons. We didn't all clap our hands and jump up and down and say, "Good for them!" People were disgusted. Besides, they didn't burn the church down because of black and white so
much, as they were drunk and the church was an old wooden building on an isolated country road. I grew up in the real Mayberry RFD, and I now realize the rest of the world isn't so benign. Still, I believe the VAST majority of white folks are just like those I grew up with. They
just want to be left alone. Live and let live is their motto.

Unfortunately, The Elites are insatiable in their desire to stir up division in this country, so it's impossible that we should be Left Alone. Unless we can find another sparsely populated land mass to migrate to and inhabit. Any suggestions?


I've never looked at East and West in quite the way you put it. I remember distinctly when Japan was the new Boogeyman. The Elite Media constantly attacked them as dangerous when the Nipponese were going on their real estate spending sprees in the late 80's early 90's. It's always the same thing when you get down to it. Anyone who actually prospers becomes the newest enemy of the Elite. When we prospered as a middle class in this country, they made us Public Enenmy Number One, and haven't let up since. And the amazing thing is--we're still here. Weak and dazed, but still standing. There is a God. And we better find out Who He is soon.



How true. I've been conscious of your point about the elite(I prefer to call them a trashy Zion version of the Mafia or la faux nouveaux riche). They hated the years of the Dot.com geniuses. They could only steal from them by manipulating trade rules and facilitating hostile take-overs via market manipulation. They then shipped these wonderful Silicon Valley creations to China and reaped all the profits. Couldn't have some white bred hippie making that kind of money.Look what they did to Bill Gates with the 'anti-trust' and monopoly allegations. They wanted control of his fortune and intellectual rights. They made him create an NSA backdoor for spying, eavesdropping and censorship. This is how they defeat anyone who desires their piece of the pie in the US. You can forgo trying to become a Bill Gates. You won't see too many more of his kind in the US of I. They've change ALL THE RULES! They will ruin you before you ever get the chance. Better try skill trade and live like Elaine and PK Scott. That is the way I have survived most of my life. It makes life worth living.


"DeVaul- Just curious. Who, currently, do you have in mind that would?"

Sorry to respond so late to this. I don't have internet at home.

No one comes to mind at the moment, although the Green Party and Ralph Nader seem to support a lot of what I believe in, but I have not checked up on them in quite some time, so maybe they do not anymore.

I can say this though: if I had been allowed to go as far as Ron Paul was allowed to go in our corrupt system, I would not have turned back or given up at the crucial moment. At 73 he had nothing to lose. He had lived his life and had a good life to boot. How can someone who is 73 be afraid to die?

If the old will not risk anything, how can we expect the young, who have their whole lives before them, to risk anything at all?

As for "Dutch Idiot", well... self-explanatory.


Oh, and here is another thing the "Elaine bashers" won't like, but I'm going to say it.

Most of the anger directed at Elaine comes from those who are suffering a sense of disillusionment and betrayal over the failure of the so-called "Ron Paul Revolution". They will not admit it, but deep down inside that is what they are suffering from.

Also, I never said Ron Paul was not a good man or not a gentleman or whatever. What I have tried to point out is that Ron Paul was handed the opportunity of a lifetime, and he turned his back on it.

I will certainly never get such an opportunity, but if by some miracle I do, I will not turn tail and run because someone might harm me. I've already been harmed.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

True story: the very first time I ever spoke at a huge rally was in Munich, Germany, spring of 1968: I just came in at the Bahnhof. Met some students. Asked them about a hostel or place to crash. On the way over to the Jugendhostel place, I talked about my father being OSS and now, CIA.

Then I told them I was against the war in Vietnam. So they shoved me forwards at this huge rally in the central square where I was supposed to have a room!

Instead of going into my room, I ended up with a bullhorn in my hand. As I was speaking, the Polizei came into the square and attacked the students. I ended up with the only bullhorn there, on top of a VW, giving instructions to everyone so they could exit the square. I had never been in München before and ended up running for my life and at one point, climbed a wall. Then I ended up in the storm drainage system. I discovered it was sort of a radical student subway system.

Thereafter, whenever I went into a city, I would look for entry points in the storm sewage systems. Had many a fun time there. Paris has an awesome system, by the way.

Revolutions are for the young. And fleet of foot. And willing to run around in sewage systems.


CEO, even a man of the wealth and influence of Bill Gates is a target for the cockroach lawyers in this country. They finally backed off when he threatened to take the entire company to Canada. They're nothing but vampires in suits. Prostitutes for the Elites.

EMS, when I was in Paris I stayed on the canal and out of the sewer. But the Gendarmes weren't chasing me. We thought hippies lived in sewers, lol. Some of them looked the part.


Elaine, it breaks my heart when I hear you spout feminist nonsense like this: "But so long as the right wants to control the personal physical bodies of one half of the work force, this will never happen."

I expect so much more from you. You should know better. A woman GIVES UP control of her body when she lets a man deposit sperm inside her, and that sperm creates a baby. One is an action (letting a man inside her), the other is a consequence (pregnancy). That consequence represents a living human being. Killing it is a despicable way to deal with that consequence.

The fact is, both men and women are imperfect and sometimes they lose control of themselves. To pick on Palin's daughter simply because she lost control of herself is heartless and cruel. At least she has the courage to deal with the consequences in a responsible way.


" This is the same over the race stuff: all the right has to do is stop worrying about skin color and instead, look at people's connections with the Cave of Wealth and Death, we will have great power to change. And change has to include some sort of reward for workers: socialism in the form of social security retirements, free schools for the children, support for young mothers, good health care! How simple is this, anyway?"

UGH. You can't be serious. Talk about the "cave of death". Socialism is nihilism, it represents the individual ceding voluntary control over himself in preference to the coercion of the group. Then human existence becomes a struggle to see who will be in control of the group. In other words, self control is sacrificed on the altar of power to control others.

Humans, individually, are quite flawed-- they have problems controlling themselves. But when humans operate as groups, they are an absolute disaster.

You are right about a lot of things Elaine, but you seem to be advocating one "Cave of Death" in preference to another "Cave of Death."



"If we are going to have a standing army in this country, then these guys can sure-enough provide health care to our citizens! Our citizens pay taxes! And that is where the military gets its money from! So lets see them really "serve!"

Noob, you are being a jackass.

The military is, by definition, a socialist organization. It HAS to be. It cannot function properly unless the individual gives up his/her sovereignty to the group.

Consequently, it makes perfect sense that the health care is socialized, the food and housing is subsidized, etc.

Having grown up in a military family, I can assure you that the quality of all these things (especially the health care) is what you'd expect from a socialist system: worse, compared to a free market system.

The Founding Fathers were terrified at the prospect of a standing army-- not only because it represented a threat to freedom internally, not only because it led to imperialistic adventures, but also because standing armies are socialist systems, and socialism = nihilism = the OPPOSITE of individual freedom, which is of course what they were FOR in the first place.


Shame, shame, SHAME on the people criticizing Ron Paul in this thread.

This is a man who has served humanity not only as a doctor, but also served his constituents in Texas WITH HONOR in the most DISHONORABLE place on the planet-- namely, the US Congress.

Then, if that wasn't enough, this 70+ year-old-man goes through a tremendous amount of effort and time to educate the entire country on what a disastrous situation we are in-- a monumental and almost hopeless task given the complete ignorance of the american people with respect to how corrupt and bad things are in this country.

To criticize him for what he is NOT, is shameful, disrespectful, ignorant, and ungrateful.

SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on you people.


All excellent points and if I don't agree with you in detail, I agree in the general sense in that freedom and socialism are diametrically opposed to each other.

But if in a true democracy the Majority want to vote for some semblance of social welfare, I see no contradiction, so long as the welfare is available to all, paid for by all, but always controlled by the people. For instance, I see no problem with public education, but I do see a problem with the Federal Government mandating what can or cannot be taught. Education which is funded at the local level, should be entirely controlled at the local level. Parents have lost control over what their children are taught, and those who can afford it are leaving the public education system.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

Time to sing, 'Every sperm is precious' from Monty Python's 'Meaning of Life'.

Gads! Men have FUN depositing sperm all over the place. Eww.

But WOMEN and ONLY WOMEN bear the babies! This is A DEADLY THING. I nearly died having my second child! Both he and I survived....BARELY. With lots of modern care. I was in the hospital for a month.

So any man who wants to carry a baby to term, may. We have the technology to install a womb in men and then they can have a doctor implant eggs in them and have all the fun. Good luck.

Until then, the men better butt out of our business. If YOU guys want to die giving birth, good. Until that miraculous day, you just can't tell me what to do or when to do it. Got that?

Gads. A bunch of people who want freedom for themselves want slavery or death for me! Talk about sick.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

One of my favorite old speeches is about abortion: if any man hates abortion, we can spend a couple of billion dollars developing artificial wombs for men who believe all fertile eggs are humans and must be preserved.

Then they can all line up and carry the fetus to full term AND THEN RAISE IT. This would solve many problems at once. One of the biggest being the whole issue of born again males lusting to lock strange women who hate them like the plague, into pregnancy which is PAINFUL as well as difficult to endure.

I do hope the womb technology also makes the males who undergo this, sick as hell so they throw up every morning for three months. Heh. Yech. Try holding down a job, doing that!

Anyway, this should be a prime directive for all pro-fetus fanatics. I heartily encourage this as a great solution! Put your money where your whang is!

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