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Joe

Fruitcake belief system. That's how my wife has described your writings. I find your perspectives and abilities to see the bigger picture refreshing and wise. However......

9/11 was allowed to happen and those buildings were taken down with explosives.

GK

Elaine is one best, prolific writers on the internet.

However, I have confidence that once she thoroughly reviews the following website wtc7.net and discusses it with some intelligent unbiased engineer friends she will change her mind on this one.

http://www.wtc7.net/

Let's not make a big deal about it; we can just be persistent and keep making progress on this issue. Then this news service will be perfect! ;-)

Elaine Meinel Supkis

Gads.

Sorry about this but anyone who has seen high rise demolitions in the past and as someone who builds things and destroys buildings, the idiotic idea that bombs blew up the WTC is obviously stupid.

GEEZE. No one listens to me but I tell you guys, when buildings are demolished this way, there are VERY VERY LOUD bangs with VERY VERY BRIGHT FLASHES. Like camera light flashes.

The sound of the bombs going off HURT THE EARS. There was no such noise, or light, with the WTC. On top of this, why on earth would it disintegrate from the top down? All demolitions work the opposite way.

But people can't understand the simple idea of our government LETTING terrorists attack. I don't know why this is so difficult. But it seems to be very hard to accept. Why? Why?


The concept of betrayal doesn't mean people do weird stuff when there are plenty of weird people willing to do ordinary things in the real world.

blues

WTC-#2 was the second building to get hit, but the first building to fall. It did not fall straight down; the upper 1/3 tipped over and began to go down intact. But then the whole thing simply exploded in midair. I saw no visible flashes, but it must have made some noise when it exploded.

JSmith

"[Ron]Paul... said his presidential campaign will continue as long as he has support."

And The Rev. Jeremiah Wright said the other day that he'd like to be vice-president. Maybe he can run with Ron Paul. D'ya think they'd get enough votes to win?

"those buildings were taken down with explosives"

When were the explosives placed? And why were there no witnesses to that work, which can't exactly be done overnight?

That's a rather large hole in the "explosives" theory. You can say "explosives" all you want to, but you still have to say how they got there.

"Fruitcake belief system", for real...

Elaine Meinel Supkis

Gads, Blues, get a grip. You saw videos. The sound of the sirens on the streets were louder than any 'bangs' There were no bangs, of course, ergo, no bombs.

Sheesh.

And Smith: I hope you have a good bomb shelter.

Ed-M

Guess what, Elaine? Another one of the McCain blogs is called "Pirate's Cove!" I am not making this up.

http://www.thepiratescove.us/

CK

The PA primary is a closed primary, independents can't vote in it, republicans can only vote for the republican choices, dems for the dem choices. Some repubs may have switched affiliations for a day to vote for whichever dem they think might be easier to beat in Nov. Of the repubs who didn't become dems for a day, 30+% voted against McCain. That % probably extrapolates nationally. 30+% of republicans do not want McCain.
And on the cake front, my first attempt at a black forest cake did not meet expectations. A severe blow to my saveur faire.
Chocolate is not a friendly ingredient.
Soup stock however came out nicely, as did the roast duck with cornbread and oyster stuffing.
So another one is planned.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

CK, when you do perfect it, let us know so we can all mob your home. Heh. I will lead the charge.

blues

Micronukes can be very tiny. About the size of a small suitcase, or computer. I think there must have been hundreds of them. They are not loud in the manner of ordinary explosives, since they explode instantaneously. They use small cores of plutonium. I think thermite was used for the central core supports. It does not need to explode at all. It just needs to get white-hot.

There was plenty of time to install all of this, as the buildings had been completely shut down for maintenance shortly before they fell.

Ed-M

Of the repubs who didn't become dems for a day, 30+% voted against McCain. That % probably extrapolates nationally. 30+% of republicans do not want McCain.

Yet the corporate media say none of this; instead, they are obsessing over how many Hillary supporters will vote for McCain if Obama gets the nod and vice-versa. Which makes it obvious which warmongering media darling these media want in the White House.

rockpaperscizzors

Is there room in the frying pan of conspiracy theories? IMHO, the point of the conspiracy theories is that the Disney version of the WTC collapse has more holes than swiss cheese that has been forced fed to the US public. And it stinks like three day old fish. Here's a piece of the puzzle that still has me pondering the roles played and who the villians are. John O'Neill who "devoted" his life to the FBI had chased terrorists around the world. The FBI marginalizes and demonizes him. "Career Problems 1999-2000: While in New York, O'Neill's rise in the FBI bureaucracy begins to stall as he is passed over three times for promotions."
He's forced into early retirement in 2001. He's offered and accepts in July 2001 the Head of Security at the WTC:
"O'Neill Decides to retire from FBI
He hears about a job opening as head of security at the World Trade Center. It would mean a significant salary increase, but also it would mean leaving the FBI. By this point, however, O'Neill realizes his chances for a promotion were severely hurt by the briefcase incident. In addition to career problems, entertaining foreign visitors and O'Neill's lifestyle had left him in debt. The job at the World Trade Center would give him a chance to pay off that debt."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/john/timeline.html

AF

I'd like to raise an issue with the idea that "loud demolition blasts" were not heard on the WTC telecasts.

I would argue that we cannot necessarily trust the audio that was broadcast during that period of time.

All the major news networks have the technical capabilities to easily delay and alter the audio that was ultimately coupled to video and broadcast to the nation and the world.

I simply don't think it is a good assumption to trust the veracity of the audio that was broadcast on that day.

icemann

When Caligula was assassinated, Claudius, who was his uncle was raised to the throne. Nero came after Claudius.

GK

If you study the design of these buildings, you will see their main supports were the massive steel cores.

If you study the most effective way of destroying these you will find that high tech demolition companies use thermite to burn through them (like butter) and they perform the burns at 45 degree angles exactly like how you probably cut down a tree for firewood.

Thermite operating inside the core would make virtually no noise and virtually no external flash. But it would leave pools of molten steel under the collapse. These were found.

If you can look at these images of the destruction site, see the central cores cut at 45% angles, and still believe that a puff of jet fuel could do that I will mail you a Guardian of Zion award free of charge!

When we used to cut firewood, we would use diesel (basically jet fuel) to light the brush piles and it could barely start wet branches on fire sometimes. ;-)

http://www.piratenews.org/wtc-anglecut2-400.jpg

Also, would respectfully request that you do not call your humble readers ideas 'Idiotic' and 'Obviously Stupid' as this sounds like a page out of the Zionist disinformation play book.

I remain a wildly admiring fan. ;-)

scrawny coyote

Elaine, the following site could be useful in up dating your opinions concerning "there were no such noise, or lights"on 9/11. The site includes more than 12,000 pages of oral histories of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians.

These oral histories of dispatch transmissions are transcribed verbatim.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html

JSmith

"They use small cores of plutonium."

So all of lower Manhattan should glow in the dark, and the radiation-induced cancers should be spiking like crazy. Data, please!

"Thermite operating inside the core"

got there, how? (Wait, wait... don't tell me... George Bush put it there! Right?)

blues

One very strange thing said of the micronukes is that they can leave nearly no detectable radiation behind them. You need to test samples with elaborate physics lab tools to find any.

The towers were closed for extended periods of maintenance in the months prior to their big fall. "Squibs" were seen jetting out of lower floors as the tops began to fall, so other things, like detcord, may have been used also.
I have little evidence about who, exactly, did it.

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html#Jowenko
______
___


Jeff Hill: And I've come to my conclusions, too, that it couldn't have came down by fire.

Danny Jowenko: No, it -- absolutely not.

Jeff Hill: Are you still sticking by your comments where you say it must have been a controlled demolition?

Danny Jowenko: Absolutely.

Jeff Hill: Yes? So, you as being a controlled demolitions expert, you've looked at the building, you've looked at the video and you've determined with your expertise that --

Danny Jowenko: I looked at the drawings, the construction and it couldn't be done by fire. So, no, absolutely not.

Jeff Hill: OK, 'cause I was reading on the Internet, people were asking about you and they said, I wonder -- I heard something that Danny Jowenko retracted his statement of what he said earlier about World Trade Center 7 now saying that it came down by fire. I said, "There's no way that's true."

Danny Jowenko: No, no, no, absolutely not.
___
______

joe

The building was most likely rigged by the same Moussad agents arrested that day after being spotted cheering while standing on top of their work van. This van belonged to a moving company which up and dissappeared. The men were released and sent to Israel where they appeared on TV claiming that they were they were in NYC to document the event.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

Golly, there are people who think there are aliens on this planet. My sister, Mary, played aliens on the Star Trek series. Then she tried to kill Speilberg. Heh.

Aside from my alien family, the people who would have to sneak in bombs: WHY THE HELL DID THEY NEED PLANES? EH?

I happen to believe in a minimum of logic here. Saying that planes were used as cover is silly. The previous bombing of the WTC had no planes. So why bother with it?

As far as tagging 'Arabs' that is easy. So why have the complex, very very difficult simultaneous hijackings? THAT is very hard to pull off! And easily stopped!

No, there was no point to using bombs. Also, why wait over an hour before using mythological 'mini nukes'???? HOW ILLOGICAL IS THAT?

Seriously, motives! We need motives that don't hinge on pure conspiracy theories that are illogical and downright looney.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

I'm sorry to say this but a host of people have been sidelined and neutralized by this particular bizarre story. The alternate universe where the 'bombs in the WTC' people live isolates them and prevents them from ever having any impact on real events. Like all such alternate systems, there is a huge, huge element of religion here.

This is why debates fail. People start raging and running in circles and seek out only people who agree with them. THIS IS IDENTICAL TO THE ALIENS ARE KIDNAPPING MANIA. I used to appear on the radio and at SF conventions talking about aliens.

Namely, debunking the whole mythos of 'all the lights we see in the sky are ALIENS!' I apply logic to my alien friends in outer space. I assume they are as smart if not smarter than I. Ergo, they won't do dumb things.

With Bush: he is dumb. He is out of the loop. Cheney has been hiding from the public since 9/11. He isn't dumb. But he isn't so stupid as to put bombs with his fingerprints on them in the WTC. Even Mossad isn't that stupid!

Egging on and insuring a bunch of conspiratorial Saudis and Egyptians can hijack jets? Piece of cake. So why plant bombs? Why? Hell's bells, this is more pointless than aliens flashing lights at us and kidnapping some of the dumbest people on earth!

Elaine Meinel Supkis

On the other hand, maybe teenager aliens would do all that. And plant mininukes in the WTC too. Troublemakers, they are all troublemakers. Should be arrested by the intergalactic police.

These are the guys who might destroy the planet earth to prevent us from polluting the rest of the galaxy.

joe

"I'm sorry to say this but a host of people have been sidelined and neutralized by this particular bizarre story. The alternate universe where the 'bombs in the WTC' people live isolates them and prevents them from ever having any impact on real events. Like all such alternate systems, there is a huge, huge element of religion here."

This is exactly why the buildings had to be blown up. This is what Goebbels, or was it Hitler meant by the bigger the lie the better. The Psychological trauma that we went though collectively, and which has allowed the current crop of leaders to get away with such blatant stupidity, would not have been anywhere close to what it was had those building not fallen.


"Egging on and insuring a bunch of conspiratorial Saudis and Egyptians can hijack jets? Piece of cake. So why plant bombs?"

1. Just what was in building 7? What was in the Oklahoma City building? I'd say the destruction of evidence was a primary reason behind the specific target.

2. The building would not have fallen without bombs. Really not that difficult. What was the vacancy rate of those towers? Do you think Silverstein got such good lease terms because the complex was modern and bustling?

Not nearly as good as his insurance payout.

Who ran the Saudi security firm for those buildings? Marvin and Wes.

I'd say based on your attempts at marginalization that your views border on the religious. It is unfortunate that those who have remained capable of seeing through the curtain are continually marginalized. I really do find your writing to be extremely entertaining and you have an ability to pull the interlocking pictures together well. I am however beginning to wonder if you are receiving any money from the dept. of defense ;)

blues

My only point, Elaine, is that I cannot imagine how the damn buildings came down without explosives. But we don't need to argue about this too much. I don't think it's all that important. Remember, the more repressive a society becomes, the more energy goes into vast, public conspiracy theories. It's the only thing that keeps people from going totally nuts.

And about the aliens. Of course they are here. The Reptilians, in particular, are here constantly. The entire earth is riddled with their secret tunnels. They are the ultimate rulers, of course. Sometime the government tries to put in a Deep Underground Military Base (DUMB), and they run into these Reptilian tunnels. Then, that is it. Call it a day. Tell the spouses the workers fell into the cement, or something.

joe

Elaine,
The people in the planes did not need bombs. They were not involved with the demolition. The demolition team needed the planes to divert attention. I wouldn't be suprised if the Arabs did not even intend to fly into buildings. It appears as though several new technologies were tested that day, possibly even filling the planes with gas and taking over by remote.


The buildings were not blown up right away so as to give time for the maximum number of people to become glued to their TV's.

Oh...the plane that Ted Olson called his wife from...those planes don't even airphones!

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