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Great summation.

I guess all that is left now is to estimate a timeframe.

Any clue as to when it will happen?



Since u start first - I say 5 years to total takeover and resetting of world economic rules unless war gets into the way.

Fred Bear

Elaine wrote:

>Both, on the other hand, don't have the giant debt
>burdens that world debt king, the US and its
>consort, England, carry.

I've been reading your stuff for about 2+ years
now. Just a few things that you might not be aware

1) Personal debt in Australia is _huge_. As of
about four years ago, it was around 420 billion.
At the time, this was about $36,000 for every man,
woman and child in the country ( or about half a
million for one in every 15 people ). The Federal
and State governments have avoided debt at all
possible cost but have been quite happy to allow
private citizens to go into debt up to the eye
balls. One bank is Aus to watch : McQuarie Bank.
They have been very heavily in "debt instuments".
You might also remember that Westpac bank bought
out RAMS Building Society a few months back. This
is all pretty much small fry in comparisson to
what's going on Internationally, but as an event
on the local scene here in Australia, it was a
fairly signifigant event.

2) We have had a housing boom that went from about
2000 - 2005. Not as bad as the USA/UK or other
European nations ( Ireland/Spain/Italy ) but
nothing to sneeze at either. We are currently
in a downward correction which started in 2005
and probably won't hit bottom until 2011 - 2012.
Same with the stock market : it won't reach bottom
for at least 2 - 3 years at the current rate.

3) In Sydney ( where I live ) we have ( get ready
for a suprise Elaine ) : large numbers of Japanese.
We also have lots of ethnic Chinese and other
Asians, but belive it or not, we also have a large
number of Japanese people who seem to be there for
extended periods of time ( ie, _not_ tourists ).
They stay pretty much exclusively in the region
around the CBD and don't go into even the
suburbs close to the CBD. Just the CBD. I'm sure
that you can appreciate my curiosity on this point
in view of your various comments on the situation
with Japan.

4) Government in Aus has three levels : Federal,
State and Local Council. It turns out, Aus banks
weren't the only ones who loaded up with CDO's
and other toxic paper. A lot of local council
governments converted their excess cash from the
boom years into, suprise, suprise, CDO's and other
paper assets which are probably too toxic to use
even as toilet paper now.

Anyway : the e-mail address that I have supplied
is fake ( sorry, I value my privacy ). I won't
make any promises but I'll try to check back and
answer any specific questions that you have.

Fred Bear


This is all very scarey! What will happen next!!

Buffalo Ken

Jeremy - Great Question. I second it.


Buffalo Ken

Jeremy - Assuming it was a question of course, cause I just noticed you didn't use a question mark (?)!!

Regardless, I have some ideas about what could happen next, but I'm curious what Fred Bear thinks is going to happen next.



Dear Group,

My last comment was a question and a statement of being worried. I find all of this economic news to be very scary and overwhelming. I keep wondering "when is it going to become a full blown depression?" and "should I take money out of the bank?" I was born in 1975, and the America that I've always known is changing....QUICKLY changing, and that is scary to the extreme.

larry, dfh

Hugo Chavez has been very effective in redducing the burdens of the IMF extortions in Latin America. Another reason he is so villified here. He's been very active in creating a regional alliance of finance, and recently, in military protection.
The current situation with GM may be somewhat to their advantage, as they have huge cash reserves outside their capitalized value, and could use these to buy back their stock at the lower prices. They could be in a better position if this ever imporves...if.


Fred Bear - do you think Australian banks are safe. I am told that they have AAA ratings but what if people start to panic. Where would you put your money?

Gary W

Theresa, I posted earlier about Australia, but dopey Typepad accused me of spamming and sent my comment to Elaine; she either didn't get it (no surprise there) or she's too busy to deal with it (even less surprise).

Our savings are definitely at risk! The Australian government is in the business-as-usual preserve-power-at-any-price camp, and will abandon our savings if perceived to be in its interests, either directly by allowing bank failures or indirectly by additional taxes and stoking inflation.

If you have super, you should have moved your funds to a cash account a year ago :-) You might consider transferring a bank balance to a country where they have guaranteed deposits, although that appears to be coming to Australia: http://tinyurl.com/3k4kg6

Keep plenty of cash on hand! Maybe under your mattress. Or convert it to gold and/or silver and bury it in the backyard (on a moonless night); that worked really well in ancient times, people are still finding these hoards :-)

Treasury bonds are probably more safe than any institutional deposit, but sadly, I don't think any paper can be trusted any more. I'm trying to invest in productive land, tools, skills, and fruit and veges, but that's a bit of a long haul.

Good luck to us all!

Elaine Meinel Supkis

PLEASE POST ONLY ONE LINK PER COMMENT. And you can post ten comments, this is just fine with me! I hate the typepad system. Even if I get links, typepad won't let ME post them! This is infuriating.


Gary, I still love the links and hope you post them, one at a time.

About land and tools: I have both and believe in survivalism but the best survival tool is still...UNITY and FAITH. Binding together to fight for something.

Gary W

I'm afraid my diverted post is lost from here; my computer played up and foolishly, I didn't compose it offline. It was late, and I'm now pretty vague about what I said and what I linked to. Sorry. It was a bit Australia-specific for the readership here.

Agree wholeheartedly about sticking together; that is the only thing that will help us against the divide-and-rule elites and their imperial storm troopers. Indeed, that is the very definition of civilisation. You are lucky that you are deep in that future; well, no, I don't suppose it is luck, since you are so far-sighted. I, on the contrary, still live in one of Australia's largest cities.

For my ONE link this post, let me refer everyone to Charles Hugh Smith and his post on "survivalism"; this is the most insightful commentary I've seen on how our future should be, and must be, otherwise we're all going down the gurgler with the tide of fantasy greenbacks.

Gary W

Further to the above, I see that the Australian government has now decided to guarantee deposits (now that everyone else is doing it, there was a risk of capital outflow):
"Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has announced that the Government will guarantee all deposits in all Australian banks and other financial institutions for the next three years."


Love this one.


The Proliferation of Stupidity

A lot of people give me grief whenever I point out someone is pro-State trolling. The term pro-State trolling covers three categories. First, there's someone who's merely clueless or stupid. These people usually give up once you correct them; they'll either learn or get disgusted. Second, there's someone with a professional interest in not understanding the truth. For example, a professional economist usually goes into a state of denial when they read about the Compound Interest Paradox. Finally, there are professional propaganda artists who are intentionally disrupting discussion. These can be direct State spies or someone working for a PR firm, such as a drug company representative censoring negative information on Wikipedia. The last two types of trolls tend to be very persistent. Either they can't admit that their brainwashing is wrong, or they're actively disrupting discussion.

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