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"Indeed, there is now a very definite fissure that splits the left blogsphere totally: the sites that are talking about this big time and the ones, terrified they will lose all the remaining Hillary supporters, pretending they see and hear nothing. Frankly, this is real news and the refusal of the mainstream media to cover this in all its meaning is important. To have the 'alternate' side of the media online ignore this is...well, plainly sick or even criminal."

Look in the mirror, then study physics and address the WTC buildings.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

There was no bomb. Sorry. The bombing was earlier and failed. The jets crashing worked. Understanding this is very difficult for people.

People have religious faith parts of the brain and when some meme gets inserted there, they cling to this as if it is all there is in the world! I wonder why people pick the things they choose? The bomb business is particularly goofy to me. We just saw an earthquake flatten thousands of cement buildings in China but can't accept the idea that the world's biggest building per square acre of cement, the WTC, could collapse after two big jets slam into them...well!

That is obvious: the buildings looked strong but were actually quite weak! What a shock! As if this doesn't happen!

Also, why is it so important? The theory that Bush was involved works even better with the Atta conspirators being CIA agents! Why doesn't that satisfy people? I really wonder. Can you tell me, Joe?

Frederick N. Chase

The Juan Cole essay on this subject is useful in conjunction with this Culture of Life News coverage.

posted by Juan Cole @ 5/24/2008
06:30:00 AM


Elaine Meinel Supkis

Fred, it is rather sad reading that stuff. This is an election. We are supposed to get 'emotional'. The Hillary people want us to have no feelings. We are supposed to be as flat as she is. I heard her talk about the assassination and frankly, the thing that was scary about it was her voice. It sounded like a psychopath. The obliterate stuff was the same. A flat voice.

Flat voices are scary to me. As are shouters like Hitler, for example. We are in the middle of one of the worst elections ever: anyone who doesn't talk war-war-war is being destroyed or threatened with being killed or openly mistreated by the press. The refusal to let Ron Paul and Kucinich appear in public still infuriates me greatly.

The windows are slamming shut on our fingers and we have these complete lunatics being foisted on us to be our leaders! This is so horrible.

And the psychological underpinnings here have gotten downright nasty with the constant, rising references to killing Obama. Now, Hillary is crowing that whites want her much more thank you!

Gads. KKK time all the time, eh?


There are lots of conspiracies. History is
full of them. Jack Kennedy, RFK,and MLK were probably done in via conspiracies but the trade towers thing is too complex and crazy. Suffice it to say that elements in the Govt knew it was coming and let it happen---even made sure it did happen by thwarting leads/investigations. Thats a conspiracy I can believe. But the remote controlled planes, explosives in the blds.etc. is too remote a possibility. Why people have to fight over this I just dont know. Why not just say they knew it was coming and they wanted it to happen and leave it at that ?


It was either very stupid, or just very evil, or both for Hillary to make those comments. Also, Liz Trotta, former New York bureau chief of the Washington Times, went even further, as I see it. Obama is openly being threatened now by racist websites. From creepy The Hal Turner Show website:

"Given the "Clinton Body Count" during Bill's Presidency, the idea of Obama getting whacked is not far fetched. I earnestly hope the Clinton guys get it done so . . . . . someone else . . . . . doesn;t have to! No negro is fit to be President of the United States. Ever.

As far as the WTC questions, It took me many months to conclude that the planes did not cause the buildings to fall. (And nothing is for sure 100%)

The buildings could not have fallen at free-fall speed if the 47 massive core supports were intact. It was accepted by everyone that the towers were flimsy, for various reasons. Independent architects and engineers have concluded that, with the core columns, the structures were relatively robust. Even if they had begun to pancake somehow, the process should have stopped at about six floors. Ant the columns would have remained intact, regardless. And the top of the first building to fall tipped over, was about to fall to the side, but then instantly exploded into a cloud of dust. There are many, may more issues. Why was all the evidence carted away, and made unavailable with exceeding haste?

You can easily find the Piece about the attorney Stanley Hilton and his WTC lawsuit at:

Government Insider: Bush Authorized 911 Attacks

Pakistan Daily
May 21, 2008

"Stanley Hilton was a senior advisor to Sen Bob Dole (R) and has personally known Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz for decades. This courageous man has risked his professional reputation, and possibly his life, to get this information out to people."


"First of all, my office was burglarized in San Francisco several months ago. Files were gone through and some files were seized - particularly the ones dealing with the lady that was married to one of the hijackers. Fortunately, I had spare copies in a hidden place so nothing disappeared permanently. But more significantly, FBI agents have been harassing one of my staff members and threatening them with vague but frightening threats of indicting them."


"I did an interview with you, Alex, about a year and a half ago, and literally two weeks after that, I was contacted by the emissary of the chief judge of the federal court where I have the lawsuit. And I was warned not to publicize it but to keep it quiet and threatened with discipline. And it remained quiet until a couple of months ago and then I got on the air on some programs and some publicity and July 1st, I was threatened directly by the chief judge here, threatened with court discipline. This particular judge has been circulating communiqués to the other federal judges seeking anything negative she can get against me to try and discipline me after I’ve been on the court here for 30 years with no disciplinary problems at all. This is suddenly happening. And her assistants who are on the committee of the court met with me on July 1st in Palo Alto, California, and threatened me directly. They handed me a copy of the lawsuit and said that the judge wants me to dismiss this. What’s this? She doesn’t like the content of it."


"Yes, you know it’s like clouds just before a thunderstorm in the sense that they are sort of pregnant with rage. They are just enraged at the criminal politicians who have perverted and misused the government to murder its own citizens and pursue these dubious political ends. And many of them, in increasing numbers, are willing to talk and will talk under subpoena - but only under subpoena because the official party line of the government is shut up and don’t talk to the trial lawyer. But more and more, they are very outraged that part of the government has done this to its own people, to its own people. I mean you have to go back to Stalin to see something - not even Hitler did this to his own people."

This interview is about the complicity part, not the questions about how the towers fell. I read that Hilton's class action case was dismissed. This is all very disturbing.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

Cement buildings fall very fast as the Chinese saw the other day. It is silly to think the speed thing is somehow mysterious. The WTC was very, very tall. So it had a lot further to fall and an incredible amount of cement was involved.

Again: the fact remains, 'Why do it?' There was ZERO reason to have them fall. Having them burn on high was more than enough, by far. No 9/11 fantasist has ever explained this matter. Why on earth do it? Eh? Or if doing it, why bother with the jets? plenty of buildings get blown up by professional and terrorists.

It is totally stupid to do BOTH. Can anyone understand this?

Elaine Meinel Supkis

By the way, Hilton is nuts. None of the hijackers were married. One did have a girl friend named Amanda. We have to take all conspiracy talk with a mountain of salt. When the talker says things that are obviously not correct, we have to reconsider them as experts.


Mad Cow Morning News has covered this story from up to down and like me, he isn't a 'bombs in the WTC' person for obvious reasons, it being a totally insane idea.

Elaine Meinel Supkis


Here is some of the Mad Cow material about Amanda and Atta.


"This news has been around the web for nearly 24 hours and look at how high a profile it has: ... Wow. A whole 5 stories."

Which is just about what it deserves.

"Frankly, this is real news..."

No it isn't. Calm down, Ealine.

"... and the refusal of the mainstream media to cover this in all its meaning is important. To have the 'alternate' side of the media online ignore this is..."

An indication that the MSM and "alternative" media actually agree on something.

"raging firestorm"

If google only lists 5 articles it's not, by definition, a raging firestorm.

It's good to see so little time devoted to "coverage" of an idiotic remark.


I was looking at the physical facts regarding the WTC. I was not looking at the question of who did it or why. Everything points to explosives. The main point is that if anyone could be insane enough to place the (obvious to me, and to architects, civil engineers, and controlled demolition experts) explosives, they just might be prepared to do other things...

There is no real evidence that Atta, or any individuals involved with the invented "al Qaida" were on any planes or had anything directly to do with the attacks. They could have been set up to be stooges. Everything about the scene is suspicious. Everything.

The explosion of the buildings was far more dramatic than the plane crashes.

Why do all the experts think it was done with explosives?


Why does every thread have to become a "911-truth" thread?


Freud Wept.........


If Elaine disagrees with some readers about the 9/11 stuff, she will get less noise in the channel about it if she just stops calling people who disagree crazy and such.


Really? All we have to do is say, "Yeah! It was explosives what done it!" and you guys'll finally leave it alone?

It can't be that easy. Can't be.


Speaking for myself, I am almost never (maybe just never) 100% sure about anything. I don't just give out opinions; I give out a lot of information. I generally refrain from bringing up the wildly controversial matter of bombs in the buildings.

I don't know why Elaine has this knee-jerk tendency to disagree so aggressively on this. (I know about the mystical angle, but I also look at obvious facts.)

As for the real topic of this thread, I took a few days to figure out the meaning of Hillary's remark. I think she is around the bend, especially with this presidential quest. She was always wacko and heartless. A bad combination.

Chris Q.

Why take them down? Ask Larry Silverstein. Is was cheaper to drop those buildings than to clean them up and rewire for modern communications. If Silverstein Un-Properties doesn't smell it's your allergies acting up. I recently saw a full page ad featuring Silverstein and the Rebuilding New York campaign featuring the use of union labor..Baa! That's exactly what they are doing and they wouldn't use unions if they didn't have to.

Tie that in to a "need" for a new Pearl Harbor and you got something that begins to make some sense. Please not some guys who could barely fly their trainers directing fuel-heavy airliners at 500 m.p.h. into downtown Manhattan for perfect strikes. TWICE! Talk about fantasy!

Why does every thread turn into a 9-11 truth thread?

They don't and if it comes up it's because something is seriously flawed with the official explanation. What? 9-11 commission, PBS, and Popular Mechanics are good as gospel? I'd really like to know where the 19-hijackers-backed-by-whoever theorists get their facts. If your heart is in the right place everything here is related and those who know what I mean by that are probably the cleanest. Salute.

If you can watch WTC 7 fall at 5:00 that same afternoon and not see a demolition your high. I mean it. High on something. Not grounded. The building was 47 steel structure, 400 yards away, and untouched by the fall of the towers. It just perfectly cracked in the middle and dropped like a casino later the same day. Missed that one? Go look.

You surprise me with the knee-jerk on this one Elaine. Especially given the intensity and voracity you go about all the bad news and doom. Mabye not though. I hope you can at least climb down out of the tree and examine some of the arguments someday and admit you have questions as to how this was actually carried out. There really is no place to hide when it comes to the forces WE're dealing with here. And take it easy on cement, it's been around a long time and does a lot of good too.

Chris Q.

So, blues, we both put "knee-jerk" in our comments and it looks as if you were posting as I was just finishing up writing. That's what it is. I look to this woman for clear insights and when it comes to 3 steel structures falling to their foundations she is anything but. For those who are not shills have confused instincts for sure. Probably related to survival, but I'll let someone wiser than me explain that someday.

Oh yeah..WTC 7...47 story steel structure. Left out the story. Or someone has!


Also, why is it so important? The theory that Bush was involved works even better with the Atta conspirators being CIA agents! Why doesn't that satisfy people? I really wonder. Can you tell me, Joe?


Did Hitler NEED to burn down the Reichstag? If those buildings were not bombed they would have taken all day to fall. The death toll would have been much smaller. Do you really think firemen would have rushed into those building to put out the fires if they were in danger of immediate collapse?
Would we have the Patriot Act and war in Iraq have been feasible? Hell, even after blowing up the buildings they still needed to threaten Daschle with anthrax.

As for your comparison to the recent catastrophe in China, earthquakes put enormous pressure on buildings at their foundations. This is the whole problem with the collapses. Something HAD to weaken the underlying structure for them to do what they did. Building 7 couldn't have been more obvious.

Finding an acceptable way of blaming Bush is not satisfying. You seem to take Chomsky's position on this subject and I find him to be a discusting, NWO, leftist gatekeeper. The premise is not invalid just because you fail to see the necessity of it. I could almost understand if your position was, it's not worth talking about out of the concern of being further marginalized in the eyes of the ignorant public. Sick, but I can empathize, as my position has lost me tremendous amounts of respect from family and friends.

I did not set out looking for a satisfying explanation. I followed the evidence. WTC7 was not hit by a plane and there was a countdown broadcast prior to its implosion. The big problem with ignoring the demolitions is that it lets an enormous number of people off the hook. Your approach lays the blame on Bush but does nothing to expose the criminality which is endemic throughout.

I imagine there is a significant part of the criminal elite that would love to be able to place the blame squarely on Bush and his minions. The atrocities of WWII were not committed by Hitler. There were scores of scientists, bureaucrats and strong men who were cleared of blame and brought on board the Fourth Reich. You seem to have such a handle on many of these psychopaths, yet can't understand how their hubris got us here?

As with many of my friends and family, where normally we enjoy debate and banter, on this subject I frequently come under attack. Why is that Elaine? Why does this subject steer you away from discussion of evidence and into labeling of the messenger? Can you tell me?


Well, at least we can all agree that the fall of the towers was intensely symbolic in many ways. They are as symbolic as anything that will occur in our lifetimes. The whole scene certainly resembled Armageddon. It is oddly reminiscent of the Hindenburg disaster, which presaged WW-II

People here have different opinions about things. Of course, some things are too obvious to debate, such as the fact that the Clintons destroyed the towers.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

Hitler did NOT burn down the Reichstag. He EXPLOITED THIS to pass 9/11 style laws. Gads.

Few Americans know that the public law court buildings and congress buildings were being burned all over the defeated German AND Austrian empires! The Reichstag fire was the last one.

Just like many myths that grow out of thin air, the idea that Hitler did this was a convenient talking point of propagandists. The concept that evil men use outside events to make hay is very obvious. So why not accept this obvious point?

People like to think they are smart when they make up conspiracies. This is stupid if the REAL conspiracy is staring us straight in the face! There was NO NEED for the Nazi laws after the Reichstag fire! THAT was the conspiracy! Not the fire itself. It was an EXCUSE.

9/11 was a successful attack on the US enabled by US leaders working with Mossad and the CIA to insure we had an attack. Isn't that simple enough? Or too simple?

Why the need to make this tremendously complicated? Eh?

Elaine Meinel Supkis

America took obvious Nazis under the wing after WWII because we were scared of the Russkis. Russia won WWII hand over fist. They, not the US, had the most soldiers in Germany and could have easily overrun West Germany in April, 1945. My father was in the thick of this business as an OSS officer deep inside what became East Germany.

The Potsdam agreement was honored by Stalin who regretted this soon afterwards when the US was being egged into fighting the Soviets. This was because...hang on to your hats....CHINA. Mao's revolution was winning, so was Ho Chi Minh in SE China and Korea was turning communist, too. Thus, to save us during the Cold War we took in Nazis and now are...kind of like the Nazis.

And this is why history is a Bitch who laughs as she writes.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

Amazing news today: it seems that Obama's grandfather on his mother's side was with my dad at the end of WWII.

My father was in charge of finding the hidden rocket caves. And Obama's grandfather was part of the troops protecting him as he did this. They ran into several very nasty concentration camps during this time in particular, Buchenwald.


Concerning Obama's grandfather being a part of liberating Buchenwald, the GOP and the corporate media are all over Obama tonight because he said "Auschwitz" instead of "Buchenwald" AND because they have nothing better to do.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

My father is STILL traumatized by the horrors he found there.

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