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Dear Elaine,
Do you know anything about Max Heindel? If so, could you tell me? Thanks

Elaine Meinel Supkis

I have no truck with any occult groups, belief systems or people. Indeed, they usually recoil in horror when I show up or interact with any such groups or people.

This is due to my own harsh side. Humans are desperate for some astral creature to love and protect them no matter what. So they create these entities in their own minds. The idea that this is all a mirror is repugnant to most people. I am very clear that my vision of Pegasus is entirely due to the fact that this was my favorite part of the design at Yerkes Observatory. I loved looking at that particular part when only very young. So, in my own agony, when I needed to have some sort of outside force to help me, this is what I 'saw.'

We all see what we need to see. People who have 'visions' help others who can't have them. So the iconography we create is passed to others. But these are all mirrors, not things we can grasp.

On the other hand, there are 'cosmic forces' at work and I call this the 'Outer Darkness' because of its chaotic and hard to grasp nature. It is nearly impossible to understand, we just get some glimpses of it, thank goodness.

But it is really 'deep human desires of murderous or lusting' that runs deep and hard here. It is basically, what Freud called 'The ID'. The Id, Ego and Superego were kabbalist ideas which Freud used as a psychological tool for digging around in the mind.

It never worked as psychology but it works when trying to understand mythology and religion. Alas, this tool has been cast aside. People don't want this.

I looked at the Wikipedia story of Heindel. Note that the entity which is female is a Catholic icon. Including the clitoris shape this female virgin lives in! HAHAHA.

Ah, Mother Nature's many forms! Heindel, like everyone, can't escape previous iconography which is all about sex and death anyway. I suspect, we all really do want to return to the womb as Freud suggested.


Or as Jean Baudrillard would say..

We cannot stand our "differences" our
"diversity" our consciousness and wish
to return to the womb of life which are primitive one celled IDENTICAL bacteria.

For most people consciousness is too painful
so they look to gods,messiahs,or "free" market philosophies to help them escape from
the natural chaos of the universe.

Cloning is the manifestation of this subconscious wish.But the biological cloning
pales in comparison to already functioning mental cloning of the media--that "reality"
modeling machine.


I don't know how you feel about Thinkprogress and Sy Hersh, but check out this doozy of a story they posted recently:


Bone-chilling even if it is simply a second or third hand rumor. Only truly insane people would even think about floating such proposals in serious discussion!


Righto, my first thought was to wonder how many agents it took to cram Tylenol down his throat. But your explanation makes more sense.


Life's Value Shrinks at EPA

An Associated Press (AP) investigation released July 10 showed that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has been devaluing human life when it prepares cost-benefit analyses for new regulations. Federal agencies such as EPA use the life value, an inaccurate statistic, to help them determine whether a proposal's benefits will outweigh compliance costs to industry.

The AP investigation found EPA's most recent life value, $6.9 million, to be about $1 million lower than it was five years ago. According to AP's Seth Borenstein, "[I]n 2004, the agency cut the estimated value of a life by 8 percent." Then, in a May 2008 regulation for train and ship pollution, EPA failed to adjust the value for inflation. "Between the two changes, the value of a life fell 11 percent, based on today's dollar," AP says. .......

Elaine Meinel Supkis

HAHAHA. As money inflates and loses value, the dollar amount we are worth drops? Figures. Arrest them all. Make them take pain killers.


Just to add to the craziness at work yesterday we had a father and son running around in matching shirts with "TRUST JESUS" in giant letters screened on the back.

The best part is that they both hold clearances and the son works in a secure area. I wonder how many more fundie nuts are out there in important positions?

Elaine Meinel Supkis

A lot. A hell of a lot. Indeed, this greases the promotion track. They worship a very horrid Jesus, the one that plans to kill 'enemies'.


"The discovery that yes, the US government itself harbored, trained, enabled and paid the anthrax assassin as he used his own sense of moral rightness to attack the government itself, does not astonish me. "

Not to mention ordered, commanded, directed, and instructed?

"The AP investigation found EPA's most recent life value, $6.9 million, to be about $1 million lower than it was five years ago."

Makes sense. Assuming constant demand, if the supply of anything increases then the marginal value drops.


Elaine, hypothetically speaking, if I were Geronimo, I would insist on my skull being used for rituals by the power-hungry elitist European descendants. They practice abracadabra for wealth and power. And in their own short sighted stupidity, are releasing the wrath and destruction of the furies onto themselves. The descendants of the original europeans who stole the inherent wealth of the American Native Indian Nations are completing the circle. The elitist descendants' fathers who committed atrocious acts and genocide against Geronimo's people and many other tribal nations beg for Geronimo's power. So, if I was Geronimo, I would be laughing all the way to hades and celebrate that what I could not do in life and save my people, I am able to accomplish in death; the death and destruction of these foolish european descendants. And then the land shall be returned to its' rightful owners; the descendants of the Great Native American Indian People.



Have you read the book "Political Ponerology"



“In the author’s opinion, Ponerology reveals itself to be a new branch of science born out of historical need and the most recent accomplishments of medicine and psychology. In light of objective naturalistic language, it studies the causal components and processes of the genesis of evil, regardless of the latter’s social scope. We may attempt to analyze these ponerogenic processes which have given rise to human injustice, armed with proper knowledge, particularly in the area of psychopathology. Again and again, as the reader will discover, in such a study, we meet with the effects of pathological factors whose carriers are people characterized by some degree of various psychological deviations or defects.” (Lobaczewski, 42)

With very few exceptions down the ages, discussions in moral philosophy - the study of right conduct - have failed to systematically investigate the origin, nature, and course of evil in a manner free from supernatural imaginings. Evil was often considered something to be endured rather than something that could be understood and eliminated by rational measures. And - as Lobaczewski demonstrates - the origin of evil actually lies outside the boundaries of the conventional worldview within which the earlier moral inquiries and literary explorations were conducted. Evil requires a truly modern and scientific approach to lay bare its secrets. This approach is called “ponerology”, the study of evil, from the Greek “poneros” = evil.

The original manuscript of this book went into the furnace minutes before a secret police raid in Communist Poland. The second copy, painfully reassembled by scientists working under impossible conditions of violence and repression, was sent via courier to the Vatican. Its receipt was never acknowledged - the manuscript and all valuable data lost. In 1984, the third and final copy was written from memory by the last survivor of the original researchers: Andrew Lobaczewski. Zbigniew Brzezinski blocked its publication.

After half a century of suppression, this book is finally available.

Political Ponerology is shocking in its clinically spare descriptions of the true nature of evil. It is poignant in its more literary passages revealing the immense suffering experienced by the researchers contaminated or destroyed by the disease they were studying.

Political Ponerology is a study of the founders and supporters of oppressive political regimes. Lobaczewski’s approach analyzes the common factors that lead to the propagation of man’s inhumanity to man. Morality and humanism cannot long withstand the predations of this evil. Knowledge of its nature – and its insidious effect on both individuals and groups - is the only antidote.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

People are cruel because it is fun to be cruel. Ever watch a group of spoiled school girls?

Geronimo is very happy he is the conduit for the Skull and Bones. Do note the S & B guys are doing a rip roaring job wrecking America.

The Apaches want to have peace and to do that, they have to put him to rest. Heh.

The business about the FBI informing the anthrax suspect and then not arresting him is getting increasing notice. No wonder. A terrorist mass murderer being informed he MIGHT be arrested? Talk about insane.

On the other hand, look at how Bush chased bin Laden...NOT.


People are cruel because it is fun to be cruel.


From Political Ponerology -


Like a color blind man incapable of distinguishing red from green, a small minority of the human population cannot experience or fully comprehend the normal range of human emotions. And like those color blind who may conceal their condition by using the correct words while not understanding their meaning (e.g., the top traffic light is “red”, the bottom is “green”) - so does this minority conceal their condition by playacting an emotion's exterior signs (facial expressions, exclamations, body language). However, they do no actually experience the emotion in question. Their deception is revealed in the laboratory, where they respond to words like DEATH, CANCER, DISEASE, as if they were DAY, CREAM, or PAPER. They lack the ability to comprehend the emotional “punch” that certain words contain. They use others’ emotional reactions as cues, and they adjust their behavior to portray the correct ‘emotional’ behavior. (Hare, 129-30)

These individuals are known as psychopaths. Not only can they not feel the pain of others, they often seem to deliberately cause others pain. Lobaczewski refers to this disorder as an “essential psychopathy” to distinguish them from others with deficits in their genetic/instinctual endowment, essential psychopathy being the most severe and disturbing.

Many so-called “antisocial individuals” acquire similar characteristics in their life-time, whether caused by brain damage to certain areas of the brain, or functionally, because of close contact with and influence by such individuals. Lobaczewski terms such individuals characteropaths. The vast majority of both these groups cannot change. The acts that we call evil (especially on a macrosocial level) can be traced back to this deviant minority of human beings and the effects of their actions on their family, friends, and society.


it wasn't Ivins...too many loose ends.


Elaine Meinel Supkis

Ivins had no obvious motive to kill the guy who OKed the Jenna Drunk photos. Motives matter. Suggesting he killed this person first in order to get funding is crazy. The mainstream storyline is, he attacked so money would go to his lab.

Again: if that were so, the particular targets would not have been headlined by this particular photo editor!

Also, Cheney let it slip, he was taking anti-anthrax medicines before at the same time the photo editor was hit. There was this rather long pause between him and the others, incidentally. During that pause, we learned that the photo editor died of anthrax and I said, 'What the hell???? How did HE get this?' Online at the forums I haunted, we were placing bets that the Bushes would attack this particular man and when he turned up dead, we all went nuts.

When we learned Cheney and the Bushes were all taking antianthrax meds, we went nuts. We saw a direct connection between the two events. This is because we expected this to happen.

I figured, the important murder was the first one. All the others were to make it look 'random' and this is classic in murder cases. For example, the lady who wanted to poison her husband a decade ago put poison in various headache medicine bottles and killed about six people besides her poor husband.

I still feel the whole point of the anthrax attack was to murder the photo editor and only him. The letters sent to the others were frosting on the cake.


Tis no different than the expatriate Russian that was killed
by Polonium poisoning in England

Pooty Poot did this for almost the same reason except the guy
he wacked was allied with the Russian Mafia and the Yeltsin
Oligarchs who were a threat to an independent Russia.

I'm not condoning what Pooty did but what he did at least had
a bit of national security involved. This shows just how feeble
and crazy our crime families have devolved. They are wacking
people just for irrational crazy reasons. They may think they are
invincible doing this crazy shit but they are actually desperate and
on the way out.


Question for Elaine. Will the US and/or Israel attack Iran before the inauguration? Please answer with your gut feeling and not hopes or desires or sugar coating(The Cold Cassandra answer). Thanks.

What was once conducted in the shadows has become more openly blatant.


Hi Q, There is NO WAY we are going anywhere near Iran. That was just a masonic dog and pony show to make a few (trillion) bucks for the oil gang.

The following article proposes that the necons (Cheney et al) have been replaced by the neolibs (Zbig) and that means WWIII will be with Russia and China.

But it will not be a real war, just (YAWN) years of threats about it happening just to China can be loaded up with debt to finance the huge military build up.

If ZBig is in charge, that means the Obama puppet will be on TV for the masses in the next few years.


"With Iran and Syria, the effort will not to attack them, but to turn them against Russia and China. This Brzezinski design is why Obama says he wants to negotiate with Iran, but bomb Pakistan. China is being weakened and destabilized by the Tibetan insurrection and other operations, and Zbig would like to stage a large-scale incident under the cover of the summer Olympics. In the final stage, Zbig thinks he can drive the oil-starved Chinese in on Russia's provinces of eastern Siberia, where there is much oil and few Russians. Obama is thus the bearer of a plan for Sino-Russian World War III that far surpasses the insanity of the neocons. Since Russia and China are both well aware of the Brzezinski plan, this entire lunatic project is sure to blow up in our faces, with cataclysmic results. "

Elaine Meinel Supkis

GK, he has a serious flaw in his plans. China and Russia have been busy bees with the diplomacy and are allies, not enemies. Our alliances are weakening us because they all cost us a fortune.

So we, not China or Russia, are going bankrupt. We even took up a flock of Warsaw Pact countries that also used to cost Russia a fortune but now costs us a fortune.


Jesus knows better than to come back to this planet

He knows if he came, the church would crucify him all over

In his day it was the Church allied with the Empire that did
him in as he was a threat to the power of the Church mostly
and secondarily to the empire.

I'm sure our Fundamentalists in places like Sugarland Tx would
be the first in line with the nails.


chant kill repeat. check out what the talk show hosts did in Rowanda. Same shit....
the bigger the lie the more idiots will believe it. I fear for this country wow this is fn scary!!!!!!


To R,

«Their deception is revealed in the laboratory, where they respond to words like DEATH, CANCER, DISEASE, as if they were DAY, CREAM, or PAPER.»

I really think that the situation with the people with psychopathy is rather more complex than what the ponerology people propose. I think the lab experiments have perhaps been radically misconstrued by the researchers. Some afflicted with psychopathy are really very fine people. But they are profoundly disabled. I wish I had time to go into this more deeply now.

I really question the ultimate utility of talking in terms of "good" and "evil." I just think the realities they allude to are multi-dimensional, rather than merely dichotomous.

About these assassination/ suicides,

There certainly is a lot to be suspicious about! The questions around the anthrax letter event has certainly has been resolved in a most suspicious manner! The MKULTRA/MKDELTA legends certainly come to mind!

It might possibly be productive if I could review my take on the Outer Darkness issues in person with Elaine some day. We share so much in common, yet so much not in common. We agree on so much, but have such different perspectives.

The thing about the scientist Bruce E. Ivins using combination Tylenol/codeine to end his life is somewhat puzzling. Codeine is a rather weak narcotic, and if the codeine had failed to do him in, all the Tylenol would have completely wrecked his liver, leading to a relatively slow, uncomfortable demise.

Elaine Meinel Supkis

If he was in a mental institution, this should have been impossible. My husband has been in these places a number of times due to his brain injury and there is no way to get so much as an aspirin much less, codeine.

There is so much here that makes no sense. And the plea bargain deal? According to the lawyer of the dead scientist, the government was NOT seeking the death penalty, they wanted him to confess. Perhaps if they took him to Gitmo and waterboarded him, he would have confessed.

See what a wretched state our systems are in!



Political Ponerology is not so much about the psychopathic individuals, but rather about how these individuals affect entire societies

From Laura Knight Jadczyk


Pathocracy is a disease of great social movements followed by entire societies, nations, and empires. In the course of human history, it has affected social, political, and religious movements as well as the accompanying ideologies… and turned them into caricatures of themselves…. This occurred as a result of the … participation of pathological agents in a pathodynamically similar process. That explains why all the pathocracies of the world are, and have been, so similar in their essential properties.

[…]Identifying these phenomena through history and properly qualifying them according to their true nature and contents - not according to the ideology in question, which succumbed to the process of caricaturization - is a job for historians. […]

The actions of [pathocracy] affect an entire society, starting with the leaders and infiltrating every town, business, and institution. The pathological social structure gradually covers the entire country creating a “new class” within that nation. This privileged class [of pathocrats] feels permanently threatened by the “others”, i.e. by the majority of normal people. Neither do the pathocrats entertain any illusions about their personal fate should there be a return to the system of normal man. [Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Ph.D. (psychology); Political Ponerology: A science on the nature of evil adjusted for political purposes]
[…] Years ago the publication of the book in the US was killed by Mr. Zbigniew Brzezinski in a very cunning way. What was his motivation, I may only guess. Was it his own private strategy, or did he act as an insider of the “great system” as he surely is? How many billions of dollars and how many human lives the lack of this science has cost the world. […]

After reading Lobaczewski's work, it is easy to understand why Brzezinski suppressed it. It exposes the Neocons and Pathocrats so completely that they could not allow it to be propagated! It also may be that they used it as a handbook to better "pull the wool" over the eyes of the masses.

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